TO JUSTIFY OKW NO CACHES, NO BASES REFUND!

Having to bring big hammer and a small hammer to a job is worse than having one hammer fits all though.

Also dont all the allied TDs always pen Axis mediums?

Only end of tech ones.

SU-76, AEC and Wolverine don't.
Especially OKW/vet2 P4s.

JP4 is not end of tech TD, panther is and panther always pens all allied meds, only single premium med has a chance to bounce.

Having to bring big hammer and a small hammer to a job is worse than having one hammer fits all though.

Also dont all the allied TDs always pen Axis mediums?

Good luck driving a railroad tie and a finishing nail with the same hammer effeciently. There is a reason they make different sized hammers and a good contractor uses the right tool for the right job.

And yes, allied TDs DO pen all the mediums. You will also see me at the forefront of trying to get them diversified so they are not one size fits all
Furthermore, the panther also pens all mediums. There ya go. Problem solved. Just use the panther! Unless you want to return fire to allied TDs or fuck up mediums more effecienty. Hell you can use an elefant too! It's all about effeciency...

The originator of the post has valid points.

If I had to guess, giving sturmpios the ability to get double shreks would go a long ways and buffing rakettens in a slight but meaningful way is a good idea.

Remember people talking about mid or late game OKW isnt really an issue here, its early to mid game where it isnt quite right.

totally fair post @balanced_gamer

I really appreciate it. Thank you for your support and for sharing your thoughts.

What do you guys think the Sturmpio AT upgrade that costs 70 ammo needs?

Considering that it is the highest cost package that just provides a lackluster, non-viable AT proficiency.


Considering the price, its DPS should be similar to the Penals package that costs 60 ammo, not only provides 2 PTRS but also a snare (AT Satchel that stuns vehicles with high damage).

Make it so, that it is adquate, convenient, viable, sufficient enough.

It is currently just so undermining being the weakest output of all available AT packages in game for the one that costs too much, that provides too little!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

What I think it should get.

Option 1./ Locked behind 1 Base, Package becomes available. For 100 ammo, get 2 Pzshreks like what Pzgrens have.

Become a shock AT unit!

OR

Option 2./ Same cost 70 ammo still 1 Pzshrek but shoots every 4-5 seconds. Can not pick up any other weapon. Locked to 1 Pzshrek only. Can holster Pzshrek (should be visible on the back of Sturmpio when holstered)!

Becomes the fastest AT shooter on foot. Reason being, to compensate for its lacking DPS against vehicles!

OR

Option 3./ For 70 ammo, 1 Pzshrek add snare (Panzerfaust)!

Enough to scare off the enemy. DPS remains the same but provides at least proper, viable AT support.

_____
3 different styles, 3 different choices!

Tell me which option you guys think you would pick?


This is what I think it needs to become somewhat proficient and a good enough AT package and a viable AT unit.

What do you guys think the Sturmpio AT upgrade that costs 70 ammo needs?

Considering that it is the highest cost package that just provides a lackluster, non-viable AT proficiency.


Considering the price, its DPS should be similar to the Penals package that costs 60 ammo, not only provides 2 PTRS but also a snare (AT Satchel that stuns vehicles with high damage).

Make it so, that it is adquate, convenient, viable, sufficient enough.

It is currently just so undermining being the weakest output of all available AT packages in game for the one that costs too much, that provides too little!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

What I think it should get.

Option 1./ Locked behind 1 Base, Package becomes available. For 100 ammo, get 2 Pzshreks like what Pzgrens have.

Become a shock AT unit!

OR

Option 2./ Same cost 70 ammo still 1 Pzshrek but shoots every 4-5 seconds. Can not pick up any other weapon. Locked to 1 Pzshrek only. Can holster Pzshrek (should be visible on the back of Sturmpio when holstered)!

Becomes the fastest AT shooter on foot. Reason being, to compensate for its lacking DPS against vehicles!

OR

Option 3./ For 70 ammo, 1 Pzshrek add snare (Panzerfaust)!

Enough to scare off the enemy. DPS remains the same but provides at least proper, viable AT support.

_____
3 different styles, 3 different choices!

Tell me which option you guys think you would pick?


This is what I think it needs to become somewhat proficient and a good enough AT package and a viable AT unit.

I'd go for one pzrshreck that can be holstered. Reasons - it would make the unit unique and could lead to having all your sturmpios have shrecks (it really gives you more AT power as ppl would be more willing to buy shrecks when they don't lose AI capabilities). It would give you some cool tactical options such us fighting infatry and then switching to AT duties or the other way around. Now you won't upgrade all of them with shreck cause you loose AI capabilities. The upgrade should be 60 munitiuons though. I'd love to test sth as unique as this.

I'd go for one pzrshreck that can be holstered. Reasons - it would make the unit unique and could lead to having all your sturmpios have shrecks (it really gives you more AT power as ppl would be more willing to buy shrecks when they don't lose AI capabilities). It would give you some cool tactical options such us fighting infatry and then switching to AT duties or the other way around. Now you won't upgrade all of them with shreck cause you loose AI capabilities. The upgrade should be 60 munitiuons though. I'd love to test sth as unique as this.

Yes, exactly to make it unique is what would make this game all the more cool/interesting. Good opinion on this idea!

Sturmpio AT is currently lackluster, dull and definitely not unique at all for 70 ammo.

It should be that it is a viable, interesting and a unique option. That is what it should be like!

Holster the Shrek would be cool. No fucking way you should combine that with a ROF buff though.

Holster the Shrek would be cool. No fucking way you should combine that with a ROF buff though.

You are right about removing the ROF increase.

I forgot to mention the option. 4/ That it has 1 Pzshrek but give an increase ROF. No holster.

That is what I meant to mention tough! Not meant to mix up with the option menitoned with holstering.

You are right about removing the ROF increase.

I forgot to mention the option. 4/ That it has 1 Pzshrek but give an increase ROF. No holster.

That is what I meant to mention tough! Not meant to mix up with the option menitoned with holstering.

Ah OK. Glad you um.... Arnt crazy I guess...
Holster would be cool as hell and keep sturms unique. It would certainly need a symbol though (maybe something like Tommies have) same with the sweeper so players know to focus fire and are not blindsided because I don't think just a Shrek on their back would be enough in the heat of things.

I'd do it one step at a time not to overbuff it. Just holster and say 60 minu instead of 70. Play and see. IMO it could be enough.

It would make pople build more sturmpios and imagine 3 of them plus a rocketwerfer. We can't forget they can lay mines, repair, build stuff.

I'd do it one step at a time not to overbuff it. Just holster and say 60 minu instead of 70. Play and see. IMO it could be enough.

It would make pople build more sturmpios and imagine 3 of them plus a rocketwerfer. We can't forget they can lay mines, repair, build stuff.

Yeah, it should be 60 ammo instead. No reason for to be higher than it needs to be, like all other standard issue AT handeld weaponry ranging only from 50-60ammo.

60 ammo for the package is justified!

Raketenwerfer is not spammable although they are cheaper than other AT guns available. Does not make it the best. As some people had mentioned but it is not true!

It could be argued the most cost-effective AT Gun avaliable in this game is USF M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun. It performs way better than what the Raketenwerfer has to offer in terms of AT.

Rak is only good at recon mainly, otherwise it is not that great an AT support unit. It plays totally more an aggressive role than it does a defensive role. Meaning that sneaking it is the only proper effective way in order to make the utmost of it.

USF M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun costs only 280 manpower that essentially provides even greater AT utilities and perfect support. It is even better against Light vehicles and mediums than what Rak has to offer. If you take intel bulletin card that makes support weapons cheaper, it would make M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun cost 266 manpower! Interesting right!

Why is M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun way better?

Simply because of its useful abilities. Extra penetration (which increase their chances of penetrating even against Heavies) and range decimating light vehicles since it will have hardly a chance to escape compared to escaping from Rak which can easily be done!

M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun happens to even be also the fastest reloader of all AT guns. Explains why it is even harder to escape from it.

Range is another factor that enables better tracking and chances of providing better AT support.

In terms of the quality of providing AT support, Raketenwerfer is definitely the worst.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pros and Cons of these 2

M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun

Pros:
Range
Fastest Reloader
Ability to extend range
Ability to increase penetration (even increase changes against heavies which rak cant)
Better survivability
Devastating efficiency with both abilities combined
Can be considered the best alongside Pak40

Cons:
No camo/recon only
Comes a bit later just by 1 tier if you select the right one. Worth with what it ultimately provides.


Raketenwerfer

Pros:
Camo/recon
Comes T0
Can retreat
Those are the only good things about it!

Cons: (Now, the bad stuff!)
Slower reload
Worst Survivability
Highest Recieved Accuracy
Limited Range
These 4 combos ultimately into the worst AT gun as it does not perform efficiently enough for an AT gun, making it terrible overall. It is unreliable.
Not only against heavies but even against lights and mediums! You have to snare the enemy vehicles in order to make the Raketenwerfer to be even be able to acquire target.

M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun, does not need a vehicle to be snared, "just leave it to me, boom" job done, single-handedly in comparison. It has better chances of destroying lights on first sight as it lands shots quicker and further. Turns essentially all lights vehicles upside down.

Rak essentialy plays more a role as a recon than it does as an AT support unit! It fails to fulfill as a decent AT gun in comparison to the other AT Guns available in game.

M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun, is the winner essentially as it is a better cost-efficient AT unit.

Rak simply can not be considered cost-efficient with what it can not simply provide in contrast. Proper AT support!

I think a lot of the problem with people saying the rak is spammable is combined with volks low price and trade effeciently. It's absolutely worth it as an okw player to have multiple raks camod between your blob and retreat path for anyone daring to chase you. It's cheap AND volks are cheap, meaning they are not difficult to get (it also helps that they come from t0 so 270 is the price you see and 270 is the price you pay)
Funny enough the most manpower abundant faction is the one that represents late war germany

Everything except amours is too easy to scale for Okw now
And remove the art flares of command panther plz. It's horrible to have an uncountable recon

Everything except amours is too easy to scale for Okw now
And remove the art flares of command panther plz. It's horrible to have an uncountable recon

I do not think Command Panther has flares at all!

I do not think Command Panther has flares at all!

The commander does though. I assume that's what they mean.

The commander does though. I assume that's what they mean.

ahhh, I see.

I think a lot of the problem with people saying the rak is spammable is combined with volks low price and trade effeciently. It's absolutely worth it as an okw player to have multiple raks camod between your blob and retreat path for anyone daring to chase you. It's cheap AND volks are cheap, meaning they are not difficult to get (it also helps that they come from t0 so 270 is the price you see and 270 is the price you pay)
Funny enough the most manpower abundant faction is the one that represents late war germany

I know, I do not it is good way of defining OKW role. Raks were hardly used in comparison to Pak40, so there accessibility to it was less. How is it cheaper if it was harldy made in comparison!

- Rak should be more expensive, come later, made better for AT purposes.

- Camo should nerfed to the point where it can not move. Have to setup before camo, can only rotate. Can only start moving vet 1, but like grandpa speed!

- Crew should be 5 man since its current vulnerability is batshit insane. Highest received accuracy plus having to be closer range is a pure death sentence.

- Range should be the same as any other AT gun in order to fulfill its purposes.

- Does not come T0 anymore!

- Price increased to 300 manpower.

It should be from a recon role to more a AT role. It will less frustrating overall, and help better for them to scale, and have at least something accessible that is supportive for once in the AT department.

I think a lot of the problem with people saying the rak is spammable is combined with volks low price and trade effeciently. It's absolutely worth it as an okw player to have multiple raks camod between your blob and retreat path for anyone daring to chase you. It's cheap AND volks are cheap, meaning they are not difficult to get (it also helps that they come from t0 so 270 is the price you see and 270 is the price you pay)
Funny enough the most manpower abundant faction is the one that represents late war germany

Well that is kinda ridiculous right?

Rak was never cheap. Even then was hardly produced since only 3000 were ever built. I was not something they could count on as proper AT.

Maybe something like Pak38 since they produced 10,000 is more of a viable choice since that used to a greater extent than Rakentenwefer. Even until of the end of the War.

Hell even Pak36 which was produced (20,000) double the amount of Pak38 but not Raketenwerfer which was nothing in contrast. Only 3000 Raks were built. That does not suit OKW at all. Either Pak36 or Pak38 since that is a better match of its historic identity.

Raketenwerfer overall is an AT gun that can not be relied upon. Other AT guns are simply better because it fulfills the role.

Rak is just a pure recon, not a real AT unit!

Well that is kinda ridiculous right?

Rak was never cheap. Even then was hardly produced since only 3000 were ever built. I was not something they could count on as proper AT.

Maybe something like Pak38 since they produced 10,000 is more of a viable choice since that used to a greater extent than Rakentenwefer. Even until of the end of the War.

Hell even Pak36 which was produced (20,000) double the amount of Pak38 but not Raketenwerfer which was nothing in contrast. Only 3000 Raks were built. That does not suit OKW at all. Either Pak36 or Pak38 since that is a better match of its historic identity.

Raketenwerfer overall is an AT gun that can not be relied upon. Other AT guns are simply better because it fulfills the role.

Rak is just a pure recon, not a real AT unit!

There were 40 ostwinds ever build.
Yet, both axis factions have unlimited access to them(okw tad harder due to doctrine).

Don't use "build X irl", its not argument.