USF Mortar Halftrack & M1 Pack Howitzer Need Nerf

You going to ignore the fact that WP barrage -DOES NOT KILL- while incendiary DO?
You going to ignore the fact that delayed fuse is completely ineffective against infantry, unless you're blisfully unaware to what the timer on the ground that appeared suddenly is and its sole purpose is to poke at static structures?

WP is a better force multiplier. hitting a crew weapon or garrison allows you to close and beat up the unit while flame DOES do damage it can actually be completely negated by moving, WP still blocks vision for half the price.

Also if you are using delayed fuse against infantry you are using it VERY wrong. Pop it on an okw truck if you want to see what it's really good for.

USF version of the MHT Is absolutely superior to the ost version. It's got more versatility as well as recrew. It should have its costs adjusted upwards slightly, but nothing too extreme.

Edit: compare WP cost to something like a molotov or normal smoke nade if you feel it's not overperforming for cost.

weird to spend 45MU for 1 inaccurate incendiary shell

change to 3 shells barrage and reduce it damage

If pack howies are threatening you, you are either blobbing or playing static af

If pack howies are threatening you, you are either blobbing or playing static af

Pack howie auto attack
Damage80
Accuracy near1
Accuracy mid1
Accuracy far1
AOE Radius5
Distance near1.5Distance mid3Distance far4.5Damage near68Damage mid40Damage far20

Wher mortar auto attack
Damage80
Accuracy near0
Accuracy mid0
Accuracy far0
AOE Radius4
Distance near1Distance mid2Distance far3Damage near68Damage mid40Damage far20

The pack howitzer Auto attack is far more lethal than the wher mortar auto attack.

Grenadiers need to remain still to deal damage, and if I reposition them every 6 seconds to dodge the 100% accuracy of the pack howitzer, I’m gonna lose the engagement

You going to ignore the fact that delayed fuse is completely ineffective against infantry, unless you're blisfully unaware to what the timer on the ground that appeared suddenly is and its sole purpose is to poke at static structures?

I use the charges against tanks, specifically the slower heavies. It carries a good chance of causing engine damage if you can get one to hit, and they stick to the tank if they land on it directly. Killed a couple KTs in 2v2 thanks to this

I agree with what said here. Usf mortar ht is simply better and i see it use a lot in 2v2. Ost mht is useless and takes up fuel. The flames are so inaccurate and does little against emplacement.

Pak howie does too much damages for its range and accuracy. 3 shots, 1 shot always hit my infantry weapon team, kill half of them and left half hp.

Really hard to count these 2 and Scott leads to cheap dig in barrage.

I will even say usf mortar is better. Ost mortar has slightly more range and ready aimtime, but usf is more accurate and faster reload.

Pack howie auto attack
Damage80
Accuracy near1
Accuracy mid1
Accuracy far1
AOE Radius5
Distance near1.5Distance mid3Distance far4.5Damage near68Damage mid40Damage far20

Wher mortar auto attack
Damage80
Accuracy near0
Accuracy mid0
Accuracy far0
AOE Radius4
Distance near1Distance mid2Distance far3Damage near68Damage mid40Damage far20

The pack howitzer Auto attack is far more lethal than the wher mortar auto attack.

Grenadiers need to remain still to deal damage, and if I reposition them every 6 seconds to dodge the 100% accuracy of the pack howitzer, I’m gonna lose the engagement

I'd hope so, the pack howie is a howitzer that takes 3X0 manpower, a side tech, and can't hard retreat compared to a wehr techless 260 manpower unit. Not to mention pretty sure pack howie fires slower than wehr mortar.

If your gren is fighting enemy unit + howie it should lose the engagement not sure why you think otherwise. If they have pack howie they're gonna have a much smaller force due to the cost and teching, you can should be taking advantage of that.

I'd hope so, the pack howie is a howitzer that takes 3X0 manpower, a side tech, and can't hard retreat compared to a wehr techless 260 manpower unit. Not to mention pretty sure pack howie fires slower than wehr mortar.

If your gren is fighting enemy unit + howie it should lose the engagement not sure why you think otherwise. If they have pack howie they're gonna have a much smaller force due to the cost and teching, you can should be taking advantage of that.

Wehr mortar is 240mp
Also iirc the pak howi is 300 or so isn't it? Meaning: fucking well better be better...

Wehr mortar is 240mp
Also iirc the pak howi is 300 or so isn't it? Meaning: fucking well better be better...

Just checked its 340 with 8 pop cap
Plus a 50 man power and 20 fuel side tech

Wehr mortar is 240mp
Also iirc the pak howi is 300 or so isn't it? Meaning: fucking well better be better...

+1

After removing precision strike from soviet mortars + 120mm mortar nerf ostheer mortars have ruled the mortar battles for a long time. It can really be annoying to play versus defensive Ostheer players with multiple MGs/bunker and mortars on teamgame maps that are narrow/have choke points. I'm glad there is an allied non-doc unit that can break that up without having to wait for big artillery pieces. US howitzer gives Ostheer a reason to play more mobile and flexible and that is a good thing for gameplay.

Personally I like the idea of the M1 Pack Howitzer being a manual fire barrage only unit . It is a howitzer after all so shouldn't technically be auto attacking like a mortar.

Or

A quick an easy fix is to lower its aoe and accuracy which would go a long way in balancing out this unit.

i find both pretty well. The OST halftrack incendiary is better than the USF White pho’s because it actually kills .

The only way you will get a single kill with halftrack incendiary round is if the enemy forgets his unit is standing in fire and will not move them. For anyone with even a hint of battlefield awareness you will simply move out of the fire casualty free.

The only way you will get a single kill with halftrack incendiary round is if the enemy forgets his unit is standing in fire and will not move them. For anyone with even a hint of battlefield awareness you will simply move out of the fire casualty free.

Have you heard of these things called weapons teams, or buildings, or emplacements?

Flame rounds have plenty of targets worth saturating where you will get kills. Even denyig an enemy cover with then is a big deal. Unlike smoke infantry can still fire at a unit that bails from burbing cover and is now out in the open.

I do think the flane rounds should come as a group with less individual damage and bigger overall saturation, though. Too easy to miss your intended target as is.

Flame rounds aren't for killing units, they're for displacing team weapons. Same with White Phosphorous.

At that, they work just fine.

+1

After removing precision strike from soviet mortars + 120mm mortar nerf ostheer mortars have ruled the mortar battles for a long time. It can really be annoying to play versus defensive Ostheer players with multiple MGs/bunker and mortars on teamgame maps that are narrow/have choke points. I'm glad there is an allied non-doc unit that can break that up without having to wait for big artillery pieces. US howitzer gives Ostheer a reason to play more mobile and flexible and that is a good thing for gameplay.

The only problem with that theory is Ostheer if far worse the USF in "mobile" and it can be even more annoying to play vs a USF defensive player.

Tje Pack howizter and MHT gives the edge to USF when it comes to static vs Ostheer when they already have the edge in mobile play.

The only problem with that theory is Ostheer if far worse the USF in "mobile" and it can be even more annoying to play vs a USF defensive player.

Tje Pack howizter and MHT gives the edge to USF when it comes to static vs Ostheer when they already have the edge in mobile play.

Yes i agree. Pak howie hard counter Ost in my 2v2 experience.
Does really painful mp drain, and return fire is difficult until T4.

Maybe move Pak to doctrine unit or simply nerf its damage output, from 2/4 50% HP with 1 of 3 shots, to just 1/4 35% with 1 of 3 shots.

No reason Usf have mortar, pak and Scott together.

Yes i agree. Pak howie hard counter Ost in my 2v2 experience.
Does really painful mp drain, and return fire is difficult until T4.

Maybe move Pak to doctrine unit or simply nerf its damage output, from 2/4 50% HP with 1 of 3 shots, to just 1/4 35% with 1 of 3 shots.

No reason Usf have mortar, pak and Scott together.

The reason for such a large number of USF indirect fire options is the overall confusing faction design.

There is a lot of overlap between the mortar and pack howitzer where the pack howitzer is basically just s better mortar.

My solution would be to buff the USF mortar to be an exact copy of the Wehrmacht mortar, then move the pack howitzer to be doctrinal, as it is already droppable in the recon support commander you don’t even need to add it to any other commanders. Then you buff the pack howitzer slightly by making its barrage ability have a faster rate of fire to make it actually worth forgoing the mortar if you want a strong long range barrage unit that’s locked behind a doctrine.

This now does several things:

A. Less pack howitzer spam because it’s locked to only one doctrine that gets it in an expensive way.

B. Buffs the hardly used USF mortar so it is used more. Making it a copy of the Wehrmacht mortar would be a good start, just with a different vet 1 ability.

C. Reduces the number of non-doctrinal indirect fire options that USF has down to 1 team weapon and 1 vehicle, like most other factions.

D. Opens up a spot to make the M10 non-doctrinal in the Captain tier, allowing the M10 and M36 Jackson to be rebalanced so that USF has a light TD and a heavy TD instead of just one TD that dominates everything. (Jackson spam isn’t fun for anyone.)

...
My solution would be to buff the USF mortar to be an exact copy of the Wehrmacht mortar, then move the pack howitzer to be doctrinal, as it is already droppable in the recon support commander you don’t even need to add it to any other commanders. ...

USF mortar performance is very close to that Ostheer. If the become identical it would be OP by comparison due ostheer's o smaller squad size and static play.

The only problem with that theory is Ostheer if far worse the USF in "mobile" and it can be even more annoying to play vs a USF defensive player.

Tje Pack howizter and MHT gives the edge to USF when it comes to static vs Ostheer when they already have the edge in mobile play.

As I was talking about teamgames the OKW mates are the more mobile part with strong early game while the allies of the USF player are most probably more static than the highly mobile USF player. This may be something completely different in 1vs1 which I don't play.

I hate static games that lead into artillery battles. They feel far less involving and intense. So I'm in for early breaking of turtle players and more dynamic game play with tanks + infantry where support weapons only have a supporting role (as their name suggests).