Buff old Osttruppen Commander

ostruppens are just a wehr conscript right now and frankly i think they make the conscript play style better than soviets (without t70).

support and zone for weapon team and the superior wehr weapon team to do heavy lifting and take that advantage into a tech snowball.

they're far too good considering this is a soviet theme. I think what they should do is reduce the cost of ostruppen to around 120 (maybe not this much but you get the idea), but no more lmg42. Nerf them by making the call in 2 or 3 at a time i.e. 360 for three squads. Frankly lmg42 is quite bullshit since conscripts don't get baseline upgrades. This way the first call in (give it a possible cool down) is always worth it but the ones after are a real decision.

This makes sure they're differentiated from conscripts in that they're weaker and inferior but even cheaper. They also can't easily be replaced in the sense if a squad wipes, its a serious decision of whether you want to replace them with another three.

This another noob trap. There is actually little reason to crew weapon with OStruppen. You get a HMG with a crew the same target as any hmg and Pak with a worse crew.

Pioneer are far better for crewing weapons.

Pios are more expensive to reinforce and reinforce slower though. It's a Tactical trade off. Dislodging an mg42 crewed by ostroppen near a reinforcement point (bunker or HT) is prime with yakety sax playing in the background. Pios are better for an unsupported (or self supporting?) MG, holding a flank or whatever but one suffering attrition constantly ostroppen are where it's at.

Pios are more expensive to reinforce and reinforce slower though. It's a Tactical trade off. Dislodging an mg42 crewed by ostroppen near a reinforcement point (bunker or HT) is prime with yakety sax playing in the background. Pios are better for an unsupported (or self supporting?) MG, holding a flank or whatever but one suffering attrition constantly ostroppen are where it's at.

yes they do but they have target size of 1 and better vision.

ostroppen is better at capturing weapon on the battlefield where there is risk losing the squad not weapon dropped in your base.

yes they do but they have target size of 1 and better vision.

ostroppen is better at capturing weapon on the battlefield where there is risk losing the squad not weapon dropped in your base.

Like I said, a tactical tradeoff.

I will look at the mechanism of Osttruppen. It shouldn't be that difficult to increase their useability without destroying the balance.

e.g. changing:
- targetsize to 1, while moving increase it to 1,25 (current) that will allow weapon crews perfom like normal crews until they move.
-> to compensate the buff, increase price to 210mp.

- give back 2 weapon slots (1 at the moment).
-> to compensate increased potential change LMG42 with DP28 or a mixed upgrade like 2*SVT40 + 1*PPsh.

I will look at the mechanism of Osttruppen. It shouldn't be that difficult to increase their useability without destroying the balance.

e.g. changing:
- targetsize to 1, while moving increase it to 1,25 (current) that will allow weapon crews perfom like normal crews until they move.
-> to compensate the buff, increase price to 210mp.

- give back 2 weapon slots (1 at the moment).
-> to compensate increased potential change LMG42 with DP28 or a mixed upgrade like 2*SVT40 + 1*PPsh.

So like.... Cheaper, more durable and more heavily armed conscripts...?

So like.... Cheaper, more durable and more heavily armed conscripts...?

1. they arrive later and have still less DPS a cons.
2. they would still be bad at pushing, because they have to stay to get less target-sice
3. they still have to stay in cover to get any DPS
4. I want an other kind of weapon, not a better version.
5. they will still be 4men crews instead of 6 for Soviets.

All over all, still worse than cons. (they get now 7men) but quicker refresh and no molotiv.

So like... an useful unit.

Edit: Simply use a molotiv versus their position, they have to move and cons will rape them. Can't see any advantage for Osttruppen. They will only become more useful stealing stuff, that is the reason they exist ingame.

Sometimes I wonder what you guys are drinking. Can't be beer.

Yeahhhhhh, Ostruppen themselves are fine. I’d like to see their upgrade changed to be a captured LMG, and maybe even have that upgrade come at battle phase 2 instead of 3. I’d also quite like to see them able to build sandbags by default.

So a slight buff to the commander by adding a different commander ability to the doctrine in exchange for making sandbags a default ability would be a good change in my opinion.

1. they arrive later and have still less DPS a cons.
2. they would still be bad at pushing, because they have to stay to get less target-sice
3. they still have to stay in cover to get any DPS
4. I want an other kind of weapon, not a better version.
5. they will still be 4men crews instead of 6 for Soviets.

All over all, still worse than cons. (they get now 7men) but quicker refresh and no molotiv.

So like... an useful unit.

Edit: Simply use a molotiv versus their position, they have to move and cons will rape them. Can't see any advantage for Osttruppen. They will only become more useful stealing stuff, that is the reason they exist ingame.

Sometimes I wonder what you guys are drinking. Can't be beer.

1. Ostroppen are 0 cp infantry are they not? Accounting for build time they arrive at bloody well the same time but with capable support..
2.they aren't FOR pushing, they are for holding. Which they can do very effeciently due to cost and cover bonus
3.not really an issue in the early game when you should be trying to use cover all the time anyways nor in the late game when there is yellow cover everywhere.
4. But they are still a 6 man squad in a faction with tools designed for 4 men. As in they do their job... Well.

Lowering their target size and increasing their weapon slots doesn't make sense. They are not supposed to be obersoldaten. They are meat designed to hold ground and recrew weapons. The lmg upgrade is sufficient for favorable MP trades and makes them a bugger to push off due to centralized DPS.

That said, building sandbags does seem like a good addition for them, but it would be the only one I'd want.

Side note, they should look at Bunkers and making them more viable as trench analogs. Perhaps mitigating some of the MP to the upgrade portion?

...

To give them 1 instead of 1,25 target-sice when stationary makes them for you to Obersoldaten? I want the stay/move mechanism because then weapon crews will work as good as Pioneers do.

1, Osttruppen start with cool-down, they arrive later than Cons do.
2, why do you write that? Nobody said something different.
3, same, you have no idea what I say.
4, same here.

You simply don't understand my argumentation, you wrote the same as I did.

They had 2 weapon-slots since release, there was no reason to remove it.

The target site mechanism will make them better when defensive used, any movement will increas the size to 1,25. Also for weapon crews. That is a buff, but not such a huge you think. If you force them to move they will be easy to kill, lile currrent version.

SLIGHTLY. the timing is absolutely comparable to conscript timing, you can have ostroppen on field when your MG is built. It's not conceivable to consider 10-20 seconds later different timings
. If your change is for in cover only then I got news, it won't effect weapon crews because the cover modifier applied only to the squad, not the entity making it pointless in that regard. All it would do is make osts most durable squad more durable. Keep in mind cons have a greater than 1 target size and only 1 weapon slot themselves but a 40mp greater price tag and addition mp investment to get kitted out. Making ostroppen more durable than them and more scavangable is making them better for no good reason and that's a balance issue.

You pay 16mp to reinforce ostroppen. There is no reason that they should be a target size of 1 to make them more attractive to crew weapons. Their attraction is their 16mp reinforcement cost.

If you make them too good (as in durable and weapon holders) you make them over effecient. They lost their 2nd weapon slot when they were given an upgrade to always have, you seeming left that part out.

Also a 20% reduction in target size and doubling their weapon slots is a pretty big buff. One they don't rightly need..

While we are on this topic can the artillery officer bulletin be adjusted because it utilizes a now defunct ability “coordinate barrage” being that the officer got reworked and no longer uses this ability.

...

But you have to say 1,25 is a real huge tagret for a weapon crew. Also they got hard nerfed last patch, by increase the time of refreshing.

All over, I simply hate the overworked commander, it was my favorit.

Edit:

Osttruppen 1,25 size, Vet3 *0,715 (0,894)

Cons 1,087 size, Vet3 *0,707 (0,768)


So, why not make Osttruppen 1,087 too? On movement a multiplier of *1,15 to make them 1,25 again. That will still make them bad on attacking (like they should). It will be a def. buff, to compensate the longer refresh and makes crews better.

Vet3 Osttruppen have a size of 0,894 by *0,715.

New Vet3 Osttruppen get sice of 0,777 (stationary) and 0,894 (on move).


For that buff increase their cost from 200 to 210.

But you have to say 1,25 is a real huge tagret for a weapon crew. Also they got hard nerfed last patch, by increase the time of refreshing.

All over, I simply hate the overworked commander, it was my favorit.

1.25 is the standard target size for a weapon crew actually.
Recrewing with ostroppen drops the reinforcement by nearly 10mp a model iirc. Or you can use pios who have other advantages.

Ostroppen openings are simply a bit slower now. Hardly a hard nerf... They arrive with your MG instead of 2 squads by the time it hits the field

I can respect that you don't like the new changes, but over buffing them isn't going to fix it. They are meant to be weak and cheap. They fill that role well. The lmg42 was a great buff for them.

1.25 is the standard target size for a weapon crew actually.
Recrewing with ostroppen drops the reinforcement by nearly 10mp a model iirc. Or you can use pios who have other advantages.

Ostroppen openings are simply a bit slower now. Hardly a hard nerf... They arrive with your MG instead of 2 squads by the time it hits the field

I can respect that you don't like the new changes, but over buffing them isn't going to fix it. They are meant to be weak and cheap. They fill that role well. The lmg42 was a great buff for them.

I made a Edit to show what I mean. Sure, I didn't know Cons have size of 1,087.


Edit: They start with cool-down and their refresh got nerfed. That is what the problem is. They got double nerfed and got a LMG for that. But didn't wanted the LMG42, I wantet a small late game buff like a DP28 and buff Osttruppen with an other mechnism.

I still play Osttruppen, because I am simply like them.

I can live with the fact that Ostruppen have a cooldown at the start, but the reinforcement rate nerf is uncalled for. And people make SUCH A BIG DEAL about the stupid lmg upgrade is a massive buff. It isn't. 1) Gotta tech BP3. While USF/UKF can get upgrades as soon as they want. 2) Bal team is so scared of overbuffing Ost, they nerfed the performance of the lmg 3) Only one weapon slot and removed the cover bonus for picked up weapons. That's a lot of caveats.

I can live with the fact that Ostruppen have a cooldown at the start, but the reinforcement rate nerf is uncalled for.

I assume you've never, not even once in your coh career came up with an idea to use osttruppen together with 251. That was main reason why reinforce time was nerfed.
You literally could outshoot every single infantry in game with 251 behind as long as number of squads on both sides was equal.

And people make SUCH A BIG DEAL about the stupid lmg upgrade is a massive buff. It isn't. 1) Gotta tech BP3. While USF/UKF can get upgrades as soon as they want. 2) Bal team is so scared of overbuffing Ost, they nerfed the performance of the lmg 3) Only one weapon slot and removed the cover bonus for picked up weapons. That's a lot of caveats.

1) It is, its considerable DPS boost that makes ONE osttruppen model have about as much ranged DPS as one conscript... SQUAD. Its irrelevant that its BP3 locked, DPS is not primary function of the squad, that's what are grens for.
2) You see nothing wrong with 6 man squad having powerful long range DPS? I'll assume you are perfectly fine and content with giving conscripts back 2 weapon slots, so brits can equip them with 2 vickers k.
Seriously, what do you expect from 200mp 0CP squad?
3) Because they were 2nd most overpowered squad in the whole game when picked 2 weapons (first one was cons). Their LMG in cover got 75% of performance os gren LMG and it got 75% of its cost. Nothing wrong, bad, nerfed or imbalanced considering the cost. Don't REEEEE so much.

Simply destroy 251? If not, after 1min Ostheer player waisted 700mp for holding the ground, wow.

Katiof, you simply don't think before writing. I am wondering why you didn't got banned because of beeing perma troll. And I know you will report that, because you have a small ego.

Back to topic:
Even with a little bit barin you can see in your post, that Osttruppen got more nerf than buff. Even the Main commander got also nerfed.

Simply destroy 251? If not, after 1min Ostheer player waisted 700mp for holding the ground, wow.

Katiof, you simply don't think before writing. I am wondering why you didn't got banned because of beeing perma troll. And I know you will report that, because you have a small ego.

Back to topic:
Even with a little bit barin you can see in your post, that Osttruppen got more nerf than buff. Even the Main commander got also nerfed.

Exactly, almost no Ost players go for 251 for reinforcement cuz its the easiest HT to kill. And if Ostruppen need to wait until T4 to get lmgs, it's not too much to ask for normal lmg performance. I always wonder who unbanned him.

Exactly, almost no Ost players go for 251 for reinforcement cuz its the easiest HT to kill. And if Ostruppen need to wait until T4 to get lmgs, it's not too much to ask for normal lmg performance. I always wonder who unbanned him.

Mostly bunker is worth more. Since you can't use it as refresh while upgraded with flamer it has no use for Osttruppen anymore. That was even the largest nerf for Osttruppen. xDD


We don't speak about making something op, only worth its price or buff by increase also the price.