Counter vs. Shocks..?

What happened to the MG42? It takes so long to suppress and can't kill anything (we're talking 6 man squads here)..now what am I going to do against shocks? Get a PIV and wait for 5 minutes for it to wittle all the shocks down? If you don't kill them all they'll just start aggregating until the whole map is filled with 2-3 shock squads.. Even a vet 3 LMG gren isn't going to kill these things. So what now? gg?

I think you are obviosly doing something wrong...If Shock Troopers are at near-middle distance from the MG team then Shocks are pretty much surpressed from the first burst...don't know if this aplies to the Soviet -10 surpresion buletin that Shocks can have...

Get a sniper. Each shot it gets is a massive manpower drain on Shocks.
MG42 + Mortar is also fantastic way to deal with the charge in, get suppressed, smoke grenade and follow through direct frontal attack. Just mortar into the smoke.
FHT and no-upgun SC also destroy Shocks.

ostwind cleans the feild

yes, if I see shocks I just soft retreat my grens and let the sc handle them. especially if there's no cons around, drive really close to them to maximise damage.
a rifle or bundle nade is always good ofc

Shocks are the most expensive anti-infantry infantry in the game, afaik. They have zero counters to vehicles however, so that is your best bet, along with snipers and PzGrens' bundlenades.

Also remember, they are less accurate on the move - I don't think that is true of PzGren MP44s, though I could be wrong.

MG42s are not the way to counter them, they have abilities especially designed to counter MG42s.

upgun scout cars, snipers, brummbaars (lol thats quite the troll in game), ostwinds, FHT, any kind of vehicle really

More realistically you will end up fighting them with grens under MG support, so just try to suppress them and rifle nade. If the enemy gets more than 1 squad of shocks, which is almost never in my experience, then a sniper is probably the way to go

How about in the recent patch?

Is a double MG or MG + sniper build order a must now since everyone is using those shocks that come super early in this patch?

I wouldn't go mg heavy, shocktroops can actually take them out single handedly with the help of their smoke grenade. It's better to have only one mg in favor of having another grensquad to support it.

I usually try to avoid them and keep them at distance until I have a vehicle (You don't say?! ). I then try to hit t2 asap to get either a FHT or atleast a scout car. Also g43 work pretty well for me to give my grens a chance mid/late game. Sniper is also great vs shocks although I don't know if it's still bugged.

Anything that avoids infantry armor, which is their primary strength.

They tear 221s up with small arms if they get in range. Not advisable.
FHTs are excellent, as well as being mobile enough to move to where the Shocks are.
Flame Pios get torn to pieces at their effective range, and since they dont fire when moving, are likely to get Naded or suffer Flamer explosion.
MG42s they can Smoke, and they deflect the dmg with armor. One is good though, so you can get a quick RNade onto a Suppressed squad.
Snipers are probably the best counter, with range. But you currently have to remember to manually target them. Over time the MP costs start to show.
G43s and LMGs are generally ineffective, again, due to infantry armor deflects.
Ostwinds are great, but not available early game.
PGrens lose categorically.

So yeah, in conclusion, if he commits to Shocks early, then FHT and/or Sniper are probably best.

Frankly I find it a relief when Sov commits to either Guard or Shock Doctrines early on:
A) Cos they are relatively expensive early on, and its less units overall to deal with.
B) Can tailor my build to respond to those.

I find it much harder to respond when Sov builds them a bit later, once Ive already committed my early build. And I think thats good general advice to Sov, wait with Guard/Shock choice, until you see what Ost has built. Because its somewhat harder for him to retroactively respond, whereas all Sov needs to do, is chose Commander and callin Guard/Guard ontop of your force, regardless of build or how youce teched, to respond to those.

That is probably the best take on shock-countering I've seen. Personally I find it more fun to use Pgrens as soon as I can, but i'm always hoping they sit still long enough to get a bundle nade off. And if I equip my PG's with G43's, they generally fair better. But I would agree with ^ (especially in terms of cost), flamer HT and snipers are your best bet

Flamethrower halftrack and skip the sniper. Bad cost/benefit. I often see ostheer players bring halftracks out with flamers guarded by AT guns. That's what you should do Remember to kite them always. Best bet is hard counters, MG+AT+Halftrack Flamers.

But you knew that already, right?...

Honestly Shock troops needs a heavy nerf, no surprise you're on here asking for tips. It's a nightmare to exterminate a squad due to them being so numerous, and once they gain that EXP... GG. Either that or Relic releases a special expansion pack with Totenkopf, Das Reich, and leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. How's that for deadly.

Flamethrower halftrack and skip the sniper. Bad cost/benefit. I often see ostheer players bring halftracks out with flamers guarded by AT guns. That's what you should do Remember to kite them always. Best bet is hard counters, MG+AT+Halftrack Flamers.

But you knew that already, right?...

Honestly Shock troops needs a heavy nerf, no surprise you're on here asking for tips. It's a nightmare to exterminate a squad due to them being so numerous, and once they gain that EXP... GG. Either that or Relic releases a special expansion pack with Totenkopf, Das Reich, and leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. How's that for deadly.

When you pull out your halftrack to counter shocktroops,zis gun is on the map already waiting for you to come...one good shot is enough, and german snipers are owned against rusian snipers easily...playing with shocktroops is just to easy as they easily counter every german infantry and just own the map. with good player microing them,they are very hard to beat,especially combined with zis and mortars..they need to be nerfed somehow

When you pull out your halftrack to counter shocktroops,zis gun is on the map already waiting for you to come...one good shot is enough, and german snipers are owned against rusian snipers easily...

You'll see soviet snipers OR the Zis, not both, unless the soviet built both tier 1 and 2 which is a not insignificant investment.

You'll see soviet snipers OR the Zis, not both, unless the soviet built both tier 1 and 2 which is a not insignificant investment.

yeah,you re right,but playing with a sniper is not easy,since you always have to babysitting it,and have to have pretty good microskills,not to mention it can be flanked and killed easily if not carefull..one lucky mortar shot or catching it with a clown car with flamethrowers in it..and now sceptics will say ; but you can do that,or you can do that...yes,but it is pretty hard even if you re a good player. I ll always have my bet on Russians when two equally skilled players play against each other!

MG42 doesnt supress anything till the second burst (happens to me) and usually, shocks have enough time to throw a smoke grenade, or just run in front of your MG, they get supress at half distance, throw normal grenade, and kill one by one the gunners of the MG with their normal weapons... In my opinion, they are too strong, come on, they counter every infantry the german player can field... and they are 6 man, so its REALLY HARD to wipe out a squad or even kill any of them due to their armor.

MG42 doesnt supress anything till the second burst (happens to me) and usually, shocks have enough time to throw a smoke grenade, or just run in front of your MG, they get supress at half distance, throw normal grenade, and kill one by one the gunners of the MG with their normal weapons... In my opinion, they are too strong, come on, they counter every infantry the german player can field... and they are 6 man, so its REALLY HARD to wipe out a squad or even kill any of them due to their armor.

i agree, + 1

Also, what's up with the FTH pathfinding? I mean really it literally just spins out of control in dire situations when I just want it to reverse... 1 Shot from Zis.. ok back out but then it randomly turns= AT nade from cons-->dead half track

The halftrack is indeed too fragile, and bugs out way too much when in reverse in order to use it reliably right now.

The best counter to Shocks are snipers imo.

A fun thing to do, when using assgren commander, is to take out the pzgrenHT. The shocks cant do any damage to whats inside, and the PzGrenz will take good care of the shocks. Otherwise the StugE is quite handy eating shocks. However, none of theese are "fast" units. Also, both are really easy to take down with AT.