WEHR:- Fix "Close Air Support" (CAS) doctrine

The Close Air Support Doctrine is fundamentally a good idea. Thematically having a doctrine based around the Ju-87 is really cool and reads like it would be interesting to play. Although this is not the case in execution. It has some neat skill based abilities which allow for:

• Support of Infantry
  
• Light anti-tank
  
• Fuel/Muni generation
  
• A way to neuralize a point/team weapons
  
  

The problems with the doctrine make it so that it is impossible to use effectively, even near a map edge. The main use seems to be to provide allies with fuel/munitions to gain a tech advantage whilst neglecting most of the other abilities.

Some of the problems include:

• The implied synergy between abilities is almost non-existent
  
• Almost all abilities are too hard to effectively land
  
• the abilities cost more than they accomplish (in most cases)
  
• For the munition cost, similar abilities provide far more effect.
  
  

It would be good to change this doctrine to allow it to see usage and viability in 1v1/2v2 settings, without becoming op.

Proposed changes include:

• Give mg strafe more damage
  
• Allow anti-tank strafe to stun or blind or engine damage
  
• Stuka bomb should do more damage to heavy tanks
  
  

What do you think?

Infantry boost air support

Some of the abilities could easily be move to Luftwaffe officer, who is already in campaign and open the room to change some of the abilities.

The commander is actually badly designed since it a one trick pony and destined to be OP or UP depending on how planes mechanics are implemented.

Stupid part about supply drop is that you cant shoot the planes down. Also these commanders are fundamentally broken in teamgames. In maps like lienne forest fuel point is right in front of the spawn and in steppes fuelpoint on island can be easily locked down and supplies spammed. In 1v1 and 2v2 maps the resource points arent as baddly located, but just giving ability to shoot the planes down could help immensly.

What if the ostheer air doctrines allowed for Fallshrimjagers?

The single pass recon Run (2 cp 35 muni) could get changed with the smoke bomb ability (2/4 cp 40 muni) which should be available at 2 CPs like the okw ability it is only marginally cheaper while doing way less.
The AT strafe (110 muni) and the AI strafe (80 muni) are alright the later one maybe a bit too expensive for just pinning and barely damaging (but it works as the commander has the resourcedrop).
The reconaissance + stuka dive bomb combination in one commander is a bit strong for teamgames but there are worse offenders like jaeger armor, I am generally not a big fan of too many different offmaps so i would like to replace this ability and keep the 2 strafes and the reconnaissance (or smoke + recon) as munition costing offmaps.
The Ressource drop has never striked me to be particulary powerful but i think planes should come from the other side of the map or the soviet fuel drop should be changed to keep some consistency.

I think the Luftwaffe Supply doctrine is even weaker and should get looked at: The reconaissance plane is a loiter - stays longer, less directed (1 click instead of 2) and costs more which is not practical with the munition hungry rest of the doctrine.
The medical kits are quite useful, ressource drop and stuka have the same issues as above but the firebombs are really weak for their price (120 munitions iirc)(compared to british flame arty offmap, soviet flame arty offmap or any of the 2 white phosphorous offmaps while being in the same price range).

Fallschirmjaegers or some reworked Luftwaffe officer might be great additions or replacements in either of those 2 commanders so the doctrines don't get useless if you lose your munition supply.

The Ressource drop has never striked me to be particulary powerful but i think planes should come from the other side of the map or the soviet fuel drop should be changed to keep some consistency.
.

correct me if i am wrong, but im pretty sure soviet airdrop can be dropped anywhere (eg. mainbase) while Ostheers can only be dropped on ressource points.

correct me if i am wrong, but im pretty sure soviet airdrop can be dropped anywhere (eg. mainbase) while Ostheers can only be dropped on ressource points.

It is also highly vulnerable to AA and flies over the enemy base

Picked buff but it's more of a "need to overhaul" buff. Here's hoping that there is at least one more round of commander overhauls!

The Close Air Support Doctrine is fundamentally a good idea. Thematically having a doctrine based around the Ju-87 is really cool and reads like it would be interesting to play. Although this is not the case in execution. It has some neat skill based abilities which allow for:

• Support of Infantry
  
• Light anti-tank
  
• Fuel/Muni generation
  
• A way to neuralize a point/team weapons
  
  

The problems with the doctrine make it so that it is impossible to use effectively, even near a map edge. The main use seems to be to provide allies with fuel/munitions to gain a tech advantage whilst neglecting most of the other abilities.

Some of the problems include:

• The implied synergy between abilities is almost non-existent
  
• Almost all abilities are too hard to effectively land
  
• the abilities cost more than they accomplish (in most cases)
  
• For the munition cost, similar abilities provide far more effect.
  
  

It would be good to change this doctrine to allow it to see usage and viability in 1v1/2v2 settings, without becoming op.

Proposed changes include:

• Give mg strafe more damage
  
• Allow anti-tank strafe to stun or blind or engine damage
  
• Stuka bomb should do more damage to heavy tanks
  
  

What do you think?

Who are you and what have you done with the original NaOCl?
The other person just used to create one stupid and biased "Waah OKW is underpowered, allies are OP!!!" thread after another.

pls keep going, it's always good to see senseful threads like these

correct me if i am wrong, but im pretty sure soviet airdrop can be dropped anywhere (eg. mainbase) while Ostheers can only be dropped on ressource points.

You are completely right: The Soviet version costs 100 munitions for 30 sometimes only 20 fuel the upside is that the ressources are easy to capture (can only be used in basesectors) , while the Ostheer version can bring either 150 munitions or 50 fuel for 200 manpower (can only be dropped on ressource points) and is only counterable by head on assaulting the position in under 60s not with any anti air guns.

I would personally prefer to make the soviet supply drop less risky if overperforming maybe less beneficial by lowering the fuel value to 20-25 or increasing the cooldown. Otherwise maps like Lienne Forest or Lorch Assault especially in 4v4 not 3v3 might get annoying to play as it will be hard to push through half the map and atleast on axis player can surprise the enemy team with early p4s, brummbars or pwerfers.

In 1v1s both abilities are "fine" and the commanders hardly used in the current high level meta, but in teamgames the abilities one ability is hardly ever useful the other one atleast sometimes if you want to mix stuff up.

I really love this commander, don't touch it! Sure, most things are too expensive in it, but it is still fun.

Better buff the other air commander, with the useless heal drop and useless fire bombs.

Would be cool to see He111 instead of fire bomb run. Also the heal drop is kind of uselesss, maybe change it shock nade upgrade like in elite doc.

Most of the effects hare sub par

I do think the commander needs to be reworked as its not popular in 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 but can be cancer in 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 where fuel and ammo points are locked in.

I do think the commander needs to be reworked as its not popular in 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 but can be cancer in 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 where fuel and ammo points are locked in.

That could be fixed in a rework