To lessen the advantages of "pay 2 win"

As it is, you can see what commanders your opponents have chosen as their three picks. This gives a added advantage of those with a mix of bought and free commanders because you can't know if osttroupen or assault greens will be used. If this was hidden, those who have refused to buy any the pay 2 win commanders the same 'unknown' factor which indirectly give the player an advantage.

ps.

Please address the arguments if you dislike the idea.

pps.

Any argument is welcome, as long as it is well put and uses correct logic.

As it is, you can see what commanders your opponents have chosen as their three picks. This gives a added advantage of those with a mix of bought and free commanders because you can't know if osttroupen or assault greens will be used. If this was hidden, those who have refused to buy any the pay 2 win commanders the same 'unknown' factor which indirectly give the player an advantage.

Would be removing an excellent mind games bit of the game for not really much of a reason.

Also, would actually help the DLC commander people because their 0cp commander stuff would come without warning. For Ostruppen, in particular, which shut down any quick Tier 1 play, it's essential to know it could be coming.

If you have actually taken the time to recognise the different commanders from the icons, you are more than welcome to that small advantage, as far as Im concerned.

If you have actually taken the time to recognise the different commanders from the icons, you are more than welcome to that small advantage, as far as Im concerned.

Thank you for agreeing with me on how it does give one player an unfair advantage over another player. Your opinion that you should get advantages if you buy DLC's are well known and not really the issue in THIS post.

Thank you for agreeing with me on how it does give one player an unfair advantage over another player.

No.

I said it gives a fair advantage, if you've taken the time to learn the commander icons.

So the exact opposite.

Your opinion that you should get advantages if you buy DLC's are well known and not really the issue in THIS post.

Wrong.

I was, am and will always be against being able to buy advantages.

No idea who you think you are talking about, but that wasnt me.
I'm the exact opposite.
Nor was it anything I even remotely brought up in this thread.
Its logically ridiculous to claim that its somehow an unfair advantage to be able to identify a DLC commander icon, and yet by some bizarre unexplained logic not an unfair advantage to be able to identify a non-DLC commander icon.

Its like someone grabbed the sense in this thread by the asshairs, pulled sharply, and turned it inside out into a squeeling, bleeding and quivering intestinal mess meeting a sudden, agonising and unexpected end.

You basically failed in every possible way here in your attempt to be rude or insulting, which was unnecessary when I was neither of those towards you in the first place.

Thanks for the amusement.

No.

I said it gives a fair advantage, if you've taken the time to learn the commander icons.

So the exact opposite.



Wrong.

I was, am and will always be against being able to buy advantages.

No idea who you think you are talking about, but that wasnt me.
I'm the exact opposite.
Nor was it anything I even remotely brought up in this thread.
Its logically ridiculous to claim that its somehow an unfair advantage to be able to identify a DLC commander icon, and yet by some bizarre unexplained logic not an unfair advantage to be able to identify a non-DLC commander icon.

Its like someone grabbed the sense in this thread by the asshairs, pulled sharply, and turned it inside out into a squeeling, bleeding and quivering intestinal mess meeting a sudden, agonising and unexpected end.

You basically failed in every possible way here in your attempt to be rude or insulting, which was unnecessary when I was neither of those towards you in the first place.

Thanks for the amusement.

No.. Thank you!

So what I've gathered from this thread, is that this guy is complaining that he can't know if the axis player is choosing the MA or Osttruppen commander if he has one or both of them equipped.

Alright, except, this is pretty much the case with any match, with every player, everytime. Since the OP is not very clear, I've made out that the only logical argument anyone could use to complain about this would be that it results in his inability to somehow "prepare" for Osttruppen/Assault Grenadiers, since he cleary without this "preparation" is unable to fight it successfully, so instead of finding a strategy and build order that is universally useable and then adapt when he sees it, he complains.

One could also argue that you don't know if shock troops or guards are used, but apparently that's not an issue in this logic(? )and only the 2 doctrines mentioned in the OP are, because they offer Osttruppen/AGs.

So you know it could be coming, why do you not just do what you want to do to counter it, but complain? With your proposed change, you are actually worsening your situation because it wouldn't change a single thing inside the actual game, except, you guessed it, you didn't know it could be coming. No, now you don't even know if it could(!) be coming and if you can totally exclude it.

Kalismist, this is the most retarded, non thought out suggestion I have ever read on this forum. Are you related to Forrest Gump?

Why get so personal?

@OP

I would actually rather see more information. Just like you can see your own commanders in lobby (now also when searching), I would also like to see the opponents commanders when mouse over, when match is found. I remember a few of the commanders, but not all. And the small portraits look somewhat similar. This could tell me if he has got shocktroops, heavy strafe, IS2, or whatever I need to know when I go into the game.

Why get so personal?

@OP

I would actually rather see more information. Just like you can see your own commanders in lobby (now also when searching), I would also like to see the opponents commanders when mouse over, when match is found. I remember a few of the commanders, but not all. And the small portraits look somewhat similar. This could tell me if he has got shocktroops, heavy strafe, IS2, or whatever I need to know when I go into the game.

This is a really good idea.

Skynyrd, you obviously don't understand his post well enough to complain about someone being dim. His argument seems to be that your opponent shouldn't know whether you can or cannot use the assault grens/ostruppen/whatever. I think actually it'd favour the people with the DLC commanders to have this system but ho hum.

This is a really good idea.

Skynyrd, you obviously don't understand his post well enough to complain about someone being dim. His argument seems to be that your opponent shouldn't know whether you can or cannot use the assault grens/ostruppen/whatever. I think actually it'd favour the people with the DLC commanders to have this system but ho hum.

To be honest, I don't think you understood it either, because you added nothing to my post and essentially just repeated what I said. He proposed that both players commander choices are hidden, which as I explained actually results in an even bigger disadvantage for him, hence it being retarded. Since they mix up the tier 1 game so much, he laid an emphasis on the Osttruppen / Mechanized Assault Commander, as they have access to 0 CP units, which he wants to get ready for, but he can't. So he obviously went with the "if not everyone can have it, no one should" principle.

Le Wish, no worries about the ad hominems, it just proves that they have nothing worth reading anyways.

My point is that if you see three commanders of which none are the the ones that give you assault grens or osttruppen then you can be sure none of those units will be available, hence you can negate that aspect when you are formulating your strategy of winning the game. Just the fact that your opponent has the option to use these pay 2 win units means that you HAVE to take that into account in the early game. If you don't you put your self in a further disadvantage.

Further more, there is no big leap of faith to think that the Soviets will get their own pay 2 win commanders with 0 cp units in the future. The whole point of the system is that you will be encouraged to buy the new ones for the added strategic advantage, if you don't gain any advantage of buying them, then there is no real point at all.

"if not everyone can have it, no one should" principle.

Yes, this is kind of the basics of having a fair game.

I am sorry, but I simply cannot share your view on the advantage. Yes, it may put everyone at a an "equal" disadvantage to not knowing if a ostheer t0 shows up or not. Also, its more a disadvantage for soviet since there are not (yet) any t0 callins for sov.

However for my part, the key aspects of CoH is to know how to counter what the opponent brings.

In CoH1 this was reather easy, since if you know the factionchoice, you do know the three doctrines availeble, and whats therein. Once you saw the first paratrooper och recon, you knew what doctrine he went. This way, you could prepare and have a counter to later units.

In CoH2, same abilities are shared between diffrent commanders. Say we do it yourway. Example: Shocktroops that are now availeble in a total of 6 commanders. Even if my opponent pops them out really fast, I have no idea if I have to worry about a KV8, Heavy strafe, Heavy mortar, propwar, B4 howie, Kv1 or ISU. All of theese abilities or units require diffrent tech / strat / and most likely planning. It will become evident sooner or later what he brings, but just the fact that it could be ANY of a total of 6 commanders is to much to play in the dark.

This is also why I would like to see a 'mouse over' to look at each commanders abilities since there now are a total of 14 commanders per side (and most likely growing). We are not playing memory. This is also a great time to put up a gameplan for yourself or a teammate on teamspeak (or vocal-chat of choice).

That's fine Le Wish, although I see your point and argument I disagree. I do appreciate that you are actually constructive in your posts. However, if they decide to not go the way I'm proposing, then I would support your suggestion.

Just the fact that your opponent has the option to use these pay 2 win units means that you HAVE to take that into account in the early game. If you don't you put your self in a further disadvantage.

This is where you are contradicting yourself, if the commanders are hidden you don't even know if the opponent has the option of deploying these "pay to win" units or if you can exclude them and form your strategy based upon this information, which is what you want to do. So I have to agree with Le Wish here, I do not share your view on this being an "advantage".

Yes, this is kind of the basics of having a fair game.

So, to translate this into coh terms, people who only had one part of the original CoH (e.g. OF) were at a disadvantage because they could be matched up against vcoh factions, factions they did not have access to? That's news to me, because the OF players were rather capable of dealing with the stuff they didn't buy (vcoh factions).

I didn't ad hominem, man.

You did yourself with some false references to me having opinions that I don't even have. Surely you can see that isn't cool to do.

My original post had nothing to do with you personally.

The best fix is the make the player list in the match more useful.

When you click to bring it up, each player also will have 3 small icons next to him that are the commmanders he has brought to the match. Clicking or hovering over them will bring up that list of commander's abilities.

This way, you can review them in any lulls in the action, and you don't have to try and memorize small random subsets of commanders during the loading screen.