Consolidated Commander Roster and General Balance Changes

Considering it has a tanky Sherman with WP shells to shutdown pak guns, Rangers, very strong anti-garrison tools, Sprint Smoke, and Calliope, what do you want it to do? Yes, it doesn't have strong anti-tank, but the USF already has Jacksons supported by 57mm ATGs and zooks.

It's got 2 gimmicky abilities, an unreliable and underperforming rocket tank, an arguably good sort of gimmick for the Sherman and Rangers, who are probably going to be the best thing about this commander by far.

Besides it being too situational for anything, what's this going to provide in comparison or over some of the other commanders like Armor or Mech Companies? Both have call in infantry and better vehicles to deploy as well, not to mention that Mech Company even has the Dozer upgrade as well, what is this good for anyhow apart from the handful of maps that feature an urban environment? If I want to go Rangers I'll just play with Heavy Cav, I can get smoke and a Pershing as well as my riflemen being able to build defenses.

I even told Sander that this commander is probably the most unpopular of the bunch and he agreed with me on my Jumbo thread so I don't see what you're trying to defend here apart from bad decisions on the design part of it like so many commanders in need of a revamp before this.

I'm just pissed off since Tac Support and Rifle Companies need the revamp badly and there was time and potential for a better commander overall here that won't need one but sadly it is what it is.

Are we going to apply the 30% moving accuracy for garrisoned squads to all open top halftracks? That's an important change for consistency.

+1 At the very least add the 250 HT to this list. Stormtroopers doing drive-bys are just as every bit as potent as Calvary Rifles in Dodge IMO

Anyway, this thread is about the new commanders patch. Feedback that can help finetune stats for involved units and abilities is still welcome the coming weeks.

I still want to remind that you haven't changed "boolster ability" (sorry but don't remember the acual name of the ability) for Panzergrenadiers in German Infantry Doctrine. Currently you have to pay 30 ammo for the ability that you already gain at vet 1 thanks to recent core ostheer changes. Only extra thing it's not meansion is repair ability but that one should be by default of as a free upgrade.

I still want to remind that you haven't changed "boolster ability" (sorry but don't remember the acual name of the ability)from Panzergrenadiers in German Infantry Doctrine. Currently you have to pay 30 ammo for the ability that you already gain at vet 1 thanks to recent core ostheer changes. Only extra thing it's not meansion is repair ability but that one should be by default of as a free upgrade.

We got changes coming to that ability to compensate for Combined Arms being moved.

We got changes coming to that ability to compensate for Combined Arms being moved.

Ok, great to hear!

What about the icons for ostheer P4"G" and new added P4"J" (OKW version)? Their UI and icon are the same now. It wasn't the problem before becouse each version was located in diffrent faction but now thanks to TankReserve Commander both tanks can be deployed on the battlefield in same time (it will be a rare sight but it can happen). It can be really confusing for those players who often use tactical map to distinguish them.
Also would be very good if CommanderTiger had slighly diffrent icon compare to normal Tiger (same as command panther)

I even told Sander that this commander is probably the most unpopular of the bunch and he agreed with me on my Jumbo thread so I don't see what you're trying to defend here apart from bad decisions on the design part of it like so many commanders in need of a revamp before this.

I only agreed that the Sherman Jumbo would have been an interesting addition to the USF in general. I think Urban Assault will be a good commander with a lot of versatility, especially for urban team games maps.

It's pretty similar to Feuersturm (which aside from two meh abilities is very good); no crutch units but it adds good combat power to the core infantry with a great (but modest) tank and some indirect fire at the end. It will be very useful on maps like Ettelbruck Station, Angermunde, La Gleize, Lienne Forest west, Essen Steelworks, Lorch Assault, etc.

I only agreed that the Sherman Jumbo would have been an interesting addition to the USF in general. I think Urban Assault will be a good commander with a lot of versatility, especially for urban team games maps.

It's pretty similar to Feuersturm (which aside from two lackluster abilities is very good); no crutch units but it adds good combat power to the core infantry with a great (but modest) tank and some indirect fire at the end. It will be very useful on maps like Ettelbruck Station, Angermunde, La Gleize, Lienne Forest west, Essen Steelworks, Lorch Assault, etc.

Feuersturm has bad abilities:
MP 40 bad
Opel bad
Hezter bad
Fire barrage bad

Feuersturm has bad abilities:
MP 40 bad
Opel bad
Hezter bad
Fire barrage bad

MP40 Volks are pretty good, especially because of the Model 40 grenade and the smoke nade, and will get better DPS next patch. Anyways they come in the package that gives flamers to Sturmpioneers, which are amazing. The Hetzer is quite amazing too (just needs a bit lower vet requirements). The Stuka Barrage is one of the best offmaps in the game.

Opel Blitz and ISG Incendiary ammo are indeed meh, but are easily fixed with a small overhaul. Even with these two, the commander is very good on urban maps.

Feuersturm has bad abilities:
MP 40 bad
Opel bad
Hezter bad
Fire barrage bad

I wouldn't agree completly on this. Commander needs only small ajustments which they should be done in first commander revamp patch.

MP40 are quite good upgrade, i use them time to time and people underestimated the power of this upgrade. Volks gain RA buff that allow them to get close, smoke nade helps with figthing vs long distance units. Plus it's only half of what ability gives. Flamer for sturmpio is just insanely good.

Opel Blitz is trully bad. 1 small change - adding ability to heal like ambulance would help it a lot (or also add ability to transfer into a resources cash to make it more usefull late game)

Hetzer is a really good unit, it's just located in bad stop. Mostly people go for fast P4 becouse it can also fight vs vehicules. If you get hetzer you have to relay on rakktens which usually doesn't end well.

Fire barrage - it;s just too expensive

Stuka barrage - perfect vs static artylery like ml-20. Only this ability can consistently kill it, others even zeroing artillery may not kill the weapon but only decrew it.

But i wouldn't continue discussion about Firestorm. This is a thread about new commanders only

I only agreed that the Sherman Jumbo would have been an interesting addition to the USF in general. I think Urban Assault will be a good commander with a lot of versatility, especially for urban team games maps.

It's pretty similar to Feuersturm (which aside from two meh abilities is very good); no crutch units but it adds good combat power to the core infantry with a great (but modest) tank and some indirect fire at the end. It will be very useful on maps like Ettelbruck Station, Angermunde, La Gleize, Lienne Forest west, Essen Steelworks, Lorch Assault, etc.

As far as I am concerned the Jumbo could have been very easily added at least as a test to see if the community liked it or not, a blind eye could have been turned to it's few faults like as you said gameplay matters more than being 100% historically accurate.

I won't blame anybody but until Andy or someone else from Relic comes and says "No we can't add that" or something along those lines the Jumbo was always a possibility.

As far as Feuersturm goes, Vipper pretty much said whatever I had to say about it. Even after the rework it's nowhere near as used or useful as the other OKW Commanders. A good and successful rework example would be Elite Armor for OKW and maybe Fortifications. Overwatch is still considered as a badly balanced rework as I have noticed.

As far as I am concerned the Jumbo could have been very easily added at least as a test to see if the community liked it or not, a blind eye could have been turned to it's few faults like as you said gameplay matters more than being 100% historically accurate.

I won't blame anybody but until Andy or someone else from Relic comes and says "No we can't add that" or something along those lines the Jumbo was always a possibility.

Well, Jumbo is made thanks to special skin to 76mm sherman and only can work with it. From what i see the fire animation would still start at the ending of 76 mm gun.
I would love to see Jumbo in USF but they didn't want to add Hetzer tank destroyer (becouse of the fire animation) so i don't think they will add this one. It's a shame becouse this unit could acually add some character to the commander. Currently it has good abilities (especially for teamgames) but in my opinion it's more like a mix of diffrent slots than a doctrine that has a strong theme. Again, it doesn't mean they did a dead commander.

As far as Feuersturm goes, Vipper pretty much said whatever I had to say about it. Even after the rework it's nowhere near as used or useful as the other OKW Commanders. A good and successful rework example would be Elite Armor for OKW and maybe Fortifications. Overwatch is still considered as a badly balanced rework as I have noticed.

I always have Feuersturm equiped for urban maps, and I'd say it makes me win at least 75% (I'm rank 20ish with OKW randoms 3v3s) of matches on maps like Ettelbruk Station. The fact that it doesn't have anything shiny like a heavy tank or that it only works on certain maps doesn't mean it's a bad commander. Feuersturm is one of the most fun and best OKW commanders imo.

MP40 Volks are pretty good, especially because of the Model 40 grenade and the smoke nade, and will get better DPS next patch. Anyways they come in the package that gives flamers to Sturmpioneers, which are amazing. The Hetzer is quite amazing too (just needs a bit lower vet requirements). The Stuka Barrage is one of the best offmaps in the game.

Opel Blitz and ISG Incendiary ammo are indeed meh, but are easily fixed with a small overhaul. Even with these two, the commander is very good on urban maps.

MP 40 VG<<PPsh (Live)
Fragmentation grenade << incendiary grenade
Flamer on ST is situational
Hezter little reason to use over PzIV and it is extremely situational

The Feuersturm commander is allot worse than ubran defense and it the USF Urban commander will probably be better.

I always have Feuersturm equiped for urban maps, and I'd say it makes me win at least 75% (I'm rank 20ish with OKW randoms 3v3s) of matches on maps like Ettelbruk Station. The fact that it doesn't have anything shiny like a heavy tank or that it only works on certain maps doesn't mean it's a bad commander. Feuersturm is one of the most fun and best OKW commanders imo.

I think the up-in-the-air SPHQ split will do a lot for Feuersturm and Scavenge. Faster Flame Hetzer, Jagdpanzer IV support.

If the awful Opel Blitz were replaced with some sort of anti-tank tool to support Battlegroup, it'd be fairly high tier imo.

Well, Jumbo is made thanks to special skin to 76mm sherman and only can work with it. From what i see the fire animation would still start at the ending of 76 mm gun.
I would love to see Jumbo in USF but they didn't want to add Hetzer tank destroyer (becouse of the fire animation) so i don't think they will add this one. It's a shame becouse this unit could acually add some character to the commander. Currently it has good abilities (especially for teamgames) but in my opinion it's more like a mix of diffrent slots than a doctrine that has a strong theme. Again, it doesn't mean they did a dead commander.

I guess you didn't read the last comment I added to the topic covering those concerns, I suggest you go see my answers and the video I showed of it even firing, proving wrong your assumptions that the round will spawn where it would normally on the 76 Sherman.

I might be wrong about it being poorly designed but until proven otherwise I stay besides my opinion that it will need a rework after release.

I always have Feuersturm equiped for urban maps, and I'd say it makes me win at least 75% (I'm rank 20ish with OKW randoms 3v3s) of matches on maps like Ettelbruk Station. The fact that it doesn't have anything shiny like a heavy tank or that it only works on certain maps doesn't mean it's a bad commander. Feuersturm is one of the most fun and best OKW commanders imo.

Oh goody, a commander that situationally performs well on a few maps with a lot of buildings, how nice.

We have truly reached the epitome of commander design in this game while in CoH it didn't matter most of the time about the map but more like what you preferred, what your teammates went and if you know how to play with a given command tree specilizating you in something.

Instead here we have (or had more like) Panic Pumas, tech skipping commanders, commanders that are good on the few maps with a lot of buildings, zerg rush tactics commanders and so on and so on instead of having a few but cohensive, well designed commanders that can fill a variety of roles as long as you know how to play them and they fit your style.

I would say that from the new commanders the only ones to follow their theme and actually be useful, spiritually like CoH, are the UKF Lend-Lease Assault and Ost Armor Reserves altho I think the Assault Panzergrenadiers would have fitted much better, the Assault Grenadiers were only added because they were badly designed and needed to be tweaked. Arguably the OKW commander is also nice but I don't like it's gimmicky MP40 upgrade. I won't mention the Soviet Airborne as I haven't played with it, meanwhile the USF commander looks like a bunch of abilities cubbled together just for the hell of it.

Oh goody, a commander that situationally performs well on a few maps with a lot of buildings, how nice.

We have truly reached the epitome of commander design in this game while in CoH it didn't matter most of the time about the map but more like what you preferred, what your teammates went and if you know how to play with a given command tree specilizating you in something.

Do you also complain that the Jagdtiger and Elefant commanders are bad on urban maps? It's perfectly fine for certain commanders to be situational, that's exactly the point of choosing a commander strategically. That's just the gameplay direction of CoH2 commanders over CoH1's much larger doctrines.

Arguably the OKW commander is also nice but I don't like it's gimmicky MP40 upgrade.

Grand Offensive no longer has the MP40s. It and Tactical Advance have been replaced by IR STG44s and Panzer Commander.

MP 40 VG<<PPsh (Live)
Fragmentation grenade << incendiary grenade
Flamer on ST is situational
Hezter little reason to use over PzIV and it is extremely situational

The Feuersturm commander is allot worse than ubran defense and it the USF Urban commander will probably be better.

Who cares that the MP40 is worse than PPSHs? Don't go up against Shocks, the armor ignoring flamer Sturmpioneers are there to counter those. Volks MP40s do fine against US and UKF infantry and against Penals. It's not the best upgrade, but it's good enough on urban maps where lots of sight blockers help them close in.

The fragmentation grenade is great because people get lazy dodging OKW Volks grenades. Raw killing power is much better than a cover/garrison denial flame nade anyway because you have flamer Sturmpioneers to do that for them.

Flamer Sturmpioneers situational? Yes it is exactly the point of the commander that you use flamers on urban maps. Flamer Sturmpioneers dominate everything short of Rangers on urban maps. The high DPS and spread damage of their assault rifles synergize extremely well with the flamer.

Flamer Hetzer is not situational, it's the thing that you use as a shock unit by rushing T4 through Battlegroup. With only 90 fuel it comes earlier than enemy medium tanks (that you can counter with some Rakettens) and it 1v1s anti tank guns or infantry with ease. Great against blobs and garrisoned/entrenched enemy defenses.

Do you also complain that the Jagdtiger and Elefant commanders are bad on urban maps? It's perfectly fine for certain commanders to be situational, that's exactly the point of choosing a commander strategically. That's just the gameplay direction of CoH2 commanders over CoH1's much larger doctrines.


Grand Offensive no longer has the MP40s. It and Tactical Advance have been replaced by IR STG44s and Panzer Commander.



Who cares that the MP40 is worse than PPSHs? Don't go up against Shocks. Volks MP40s do fine against US and UKF infantry and against Penals. It's not the best upgrade, but it's good enough on urban maps where lots of sight blockers help them close in.

The fragmentation grenade is great because people get lazy dodging OKW Volks grenades. Raw killing power is much better than a cover/garrison denial flame nade anyway because you have flamer Sturmpioneers to do that for them.

Flamer Sturmpioneers situational? Yes it is exactly the point of the commander that you use flamers on urban maps. Flamer Sturmpioneers dominate everything short of Rangers on urban maps. The high DPS and spread damage of their assault rifles synergize extremely well with the flamer.

Flamer Hetzer is not situational, it's the thing that you use as a shock unit by rushing T4 through Battlegroup. With only 90 fuel it comes earlier than enemy medium tanks (that you can counter with some Rakettens) and it 1v1s anti tank guns or infantry with ease. Great against blobs and garrisoned/entrenched enemy defenses.

Where have you seen me complaining about the Jagdtiger and Elefant exactly? I have been with both in Urban maps and both have performed well if you've given them enough sight and protection, but of course the Elefant from Jaeger Armor has proved to be the better performing overall with the Spotting Scopes.

And yeah I remembered the old patch notes for Grand Offensive, I forgot they got replaced.

My point is that gimmicks don't work and only a few people like them, if you don't believe me feel free to re-read the threads about the new commanders, I'm not making anything up here. So it's not just Urban Assault or Feuersturm but overall, commanders should provide solid options and not gimmicks that you can't rely on are too situational to be of any use most of the time.

MP 40 VG<<PPsh (Live)
Fragmentation grenade << incendiary grenade
Flamer on ST is situational
Hezter little reason to use over PzIV and it is extremely situational

The Feuersturm commander is allot worse than ubran defense and it the USF Urban commander will probably be better.

Its nothing personal but reffering to your logic from other threads the problem is that panzer overperforming in case AI

Who cares that the MP40 is worse than PPSHs? Don't go up against Shocks, the armor ignoring flamer Sturmpioneers are there to counter those. Volks MP40s do fine against US and UKF infantry and against Penals. It's not the best upgrade, but it's good enough on urban maps where lots of sight blockers help them close in.

I was talking about the MP-40 upgrade compared to the PPsh upgrade not shocks.

US/UKF/Penal will decimate VG that try to move close. Even if they manage to close in one can simply retreat.

The fragmentation grenade is great because people get lazy dodging OKW Volks grenades. Raw killing power is much better than a cover/garrison denial flame nade anyway because you have flamer Sturmpioneers to do that for them.

Now if the argument is that a grenade is great because people are too lazy to avoid it I will simply not dignified with an answer.

Flamer Sturmpioneers situational? Yes it is exactly the point of the commander that you use flamers on urban maps. Flamer Sturmpioneers dominate everything short of Rangers on urban maps. The high DPS and spread damage of their assault rifles synergize extremely well with the flamer.

Flamer SP will lose to 2 C.E. with flamers and unless you are spamming ST the impact is small. Even you do you will probably regret now having minesweepers.

How many unit will use these upgrade anyway, 1 flamer 2 MP40?

In the end of the day if the MP-40 is such a great upgrade why are you against replacing the MP-44s?

Flamer Hetzer is not situational, it's the thing that you use as a shock unit by rushing T4 through Battlegroup. With only 90 fuel it comes earlier than enemy medium tanks (that you can counter with some Rakettens) and it 1v1s anti tank guns or infantry with ease. Great against blobs and garrisoned/entrenched enemy defenses.

And will lose to a T-70. As sock unit it might work in 1vs1 but the effect diminish in larger MODs.

There are far better commander than this one, the commander is work mostly due to shock value and mostly in 1vsv1. Even Special op has good tools for urban maps.

Its nothing personal but reffering to your logic from other threads the problem is that panzer overperforming in case AI

Hardly. That's the point of that sort of medium tank. The only basic medium that's not great at anti-infantry is the Cromwell.

The other four are great.