Some Love to OST

My point is it should be standard. You could have an upgrade on one of the base buildings.

Only OKW gets such special treatment. Everyone else has to get it via doctrine.

Only OKW gets such special treatment. Everyone else has to get it via doctrine.

Except USF gets vehicle crews and UKF gets better repairs on Sappers with Bolster and Anvil Tactics.

Only OKW gets such special treatment. Everyone else has to get it via doctrine.

Not really. Repair speeds of ost and su are slower than all other factions. It's a problem especially for ost because su has commander abilities such as self-repair, conscript repair and repair station. Ost slower repair speed makes it impossible to play their tanks effectively as they need very often two pioneer squads tied to a tank to make it battle ready in a time similar to other factions. It is a huge contrast, especially with US, where crew just hops out of a vehicle and repairs it more quckly than a dedicated pio. Remember that each pio is 200 manpower. Retreating them from a battlefield or building more of them means you have less infantry on the field as ost, which further complicates the gameplay for ost and makes it imbalanced. Again, not many people see that and concentrate on isolated units' stats, which doesn't help to balance the game.

I dont have a problem with Ost repair speed, because i try not to expose my armour too much. Paks is whats going to kill allied armour for you, panther is perfect for adding a bit of speed so you can get that final shot to kill a crippled tank, but you have to do the brunt of the damage with paks.

Panther with its armour, speed, panzer smoke and blitz to escape once you land the killing blow, is a very very good unit.

And pio take up 5 pop cap, i find myself pop constraint late late game against rush of allies units.
While SU ce is worse position than pio, to be fair, SU tanks are either cheaper or no need to push forward. You can live with lesser ce.
Perhaps pio pop cap drop to 4, and ce to 3.

I love you mate - let's tie US armor piercing rounds for AT behind a commander. There is literally a hundred more abilities avaliable for allies wihout commanders while even ost smoke on vehicles needs a commander. You can't have a dedicated unit for repair with slower repair speed than a vehicle crew - it's just a nonsense, period. In my opinion, such bunker would be the best solution but there could be other: Make crews repair speed half of that of engineers and rear echelons. Just make pios and Soviet engies repair at least as fast as the crews on us tanks. Make ost base building upgrade with repair pios, etc.

And you can't have most powerful and durable stock armor with high repair speeds, unless you go for a doctrine supporting that.

Damn, its almost as factions have different tools and different strengths and weaknesses of overall faction and individual units, eh?

I dont have a problem with Ost repair speed, because i try not to expose my armour too much. Paks is whats going to kill allied armour for you, panther is perfect for adding a bit of speed so you can get that final shot to kill a crippled tank, but you have to do the brunt of the damage with paks.

Panther with its armour, speed, panzer smoke and blitz to escape once you land the killing blow, is a very very good unit.

It's all true. Depite slower repair speeds it is possible to win a game as ost, but it doesn't prove that it is not a problem. Most players feel that ost needs more love and it is a difficult faction to play with. My point is that repair speed for ost is the most important problem as it leads to consequences that make the faction difficult to play with. Slow repair speed, for example, leads to fewer infatry squads fighting and constant problems with ost inf. Imagine having one or two more grenadier squads on the field because pios don't take up popcap or you just had more manpower to build storms or panzergrendiers. Maybe 4 man squad problem is partially tied to the fact that a lot of manpower must be spent on pios. Ost player has a dillema that other players don't have - should I spend manpower on a repairing pio or some infantry squad?

Not really. Repair speeds of ost and su are slower than all other factions. It's a problem especially for ost because su has commander abilities such as self-repair, conscript repair and repair station. Ost slower repair speed makes it impossible to play their tanks effectively as they need very often two pioneer squads tied to a tank to make it battle ready in a time similar to other factions. It is a huge contrast, especially with US, where crew just hops out of a vehicle and repairs it more quckly than a dedicated pio. Remember that each pio is 200 manpower. Retreating them from a battlefield or building more of them means you have less infantry on the field as ost, which further complicates the gameplay for ost and makes it imbalanced.

+1
Good post!

Damn, its almost as factions have different tools and different strengths and weaknesses of overall faction and individual units, eh?

I agree with the above completely. Still, the difference in repair speeds is far too big. Very often US vehicles use, for example, three crews to repair one tank, which is super fast. They have, say, a light vehicle and a tank that is damaged so they will use both crews to repair a tank. Rear echelons can also help, which will makes repairs even faster. Ost at the same time has to move the pio and a tank towards each other (usually it takes time), needs to have the pio (if you've been not careful and you lost your pios you must build another which is 200 manpower and additional time), very often the pio will have to stop performing other duties (unlike rear echelon, for example), and then you finally start your repair which is still much slower than the repair speed of even one crew that hopped out. I hope this is clear. It is just wrong. I'm not even trying to suggest that pios should have faster repair speeds (which probably they should) but just the same repair speed as us crews and uk sappers. I don't really understand why you don't see that.

+1
Good post!

Thank you

USF is designed for great mobility, fast repairs and not so durable tanks.

Ost doesn't have any more problems with repairs then soviets.
2 repair units for ALL factions(except USF because of their faction trademark that should not be used as an excuse, because its a faction trademark, not any kind of "all faction standard" you seem to make it out to be) is pretty standard thing in late game and no faction, ost including, struggles thanks to that.

Pick the doctrine and stop complaining if its that important for you.
That is why doctrines exist in the first place for the 10th time.

USF is designed for great mobility, fast repairs and not so durable tanks.

Not any more - they are much more durable now than in the past and the fast repair speeds tipped the balance too much.

Ost doesn't have any more problems with repairs then soviets.
2 repair units for ALL factions(except USF because of their faction trademark that should not be used as an excuse, because its a faction trademark, not any kind of "all faction standard" you seem to make it out to be) is pretty standard thing in late game and no faction, ost including, struggles thanks to that.

Pick the doctrine and stop complaining if its that important for you.
That is why doctrines exist in the first place for the 10th time.

I simply don't agree. I already wrote that soviets have commader abilities such as: repair station, repair conscripts and self repair on tanks for munitions. Still I think that the repair speed of their engis should probably be improved but this discussion is about ost. And, by the way, I like the game and I'm not complaining - I'm trying to refer to the topic question of this thread why ost needs more love.

If you find repair speed to be a problem, you playing the faction wrong, it's that simple. Don't rely on your armour, it's just a tool that helps you tip the balance. You can't fight allied tank destroyers head on with armour (exception a well used and supported elifant).

If you play correctly, repairing isn't that big a deal with Ost.

Yeah it's a tricky faction, but it's harder to be defensive and push off wave after wave of assault.

Not any more - they are much more durable now than in the past and the fast repair speeds tipped the balance too much.

Only if they commit to a specific doctrine.
See the pattern yet?

I simply don't agree. I already wrote that soviets have commader abilities such as: repair station, repair conscripts and self repair on tanks for munitions. Still I think that the repair speed of their engis should probably be improved but this discussion is about ost. And, by the way, I like the game and I'm not complaining - I'm trying to refer to the topic question of this thread why ost needs more love.

And ost has commander abilities such as 5th man for pios(increases repair speed) and repair bunkers.

Also, other factions had their repair speeds lowered.

My 2 cents about a 5-men-stock upgrade for wehr:

1. As long as Brits have bolster stock upgrade and Soviets can get 7 men conscripts there is no reason why OSt SHOULD NOT get his own stock upgrade to improve the unit size.

2. Give OST the 5-men/1G43 stock upgrade but make it later available than the upgrade from German Infantry.

3. 5-men stock upgrade available after setting up Support / Heavy Panzer corps.

"German Infantry" will still be attractive because you can get the upgrade earlier and Ost has to fight the majority of the game with 4 men units. But when the arty slugfest starts the faction finally can field 5 men squads who dont die like flies. It would improve the late game of a faction that is designed to dominate the late game.

Only if they commit to a specific doctrine.
See the pattern yet?


And ost has commander abilities such as 5th man for pios(increases repair speed) and repair bunkers.

Also, other factions had their repair speeds lowered.

Using that logic crews should also be tied to a commander and stock vehicles should not have crews at all.
You seem to be repeating very general facts about the game which everyone agrees with.
You don't really refer to most things I write about.
Remember there are elite bazookas on the field, jacksons are a meta now and they became very powerful deticated TD. Rear echelons keep sweeping for mines and can help with flanking mgs and even be equipped with bazookas - an extra unit that can help with attacks, crewing weapons etc. UK got in the revent patches a lot AT options like snares and so on. All this reduced theoretically powerful ost tanks to a much less effective weapons. It seems very logical to slightly help ost with repairs. Its not going to be a gamechanger but a useful detail that may tip the balance in the right way.
If You write about commanders it could be an idea to have a commander designed to support armour with abilities as super repair sappers that would boost armor ina way similar to UK sappers, for example, but they would have to be much more powerful than just a bunker or slightly adjusted repair speed.
Anyway, it seems that we will have to agree to disagree.

It seems very logical to slightly help ost with repairs. Its not going to be a gamechanger but a useful detail that may tip the balance in the right way.

+1000

It seems very logical to slightly help ost with repairs. Its not going to be a gamechanger but a useful detail that may tip the balance in the right way.

In regards to team games I don't think the balance needs to tip any further that way.

Soviets suffer from the same issues so I go repair stations if I really need faster repairs. Con repairs might be more useful if cons are better with the coming patch.

USF tanks take damage more easily/have a low hp pool so a slow repair time would cripple them and further encourage spamming TDs.

UKF-Once you invest in bolster, anvil and the munitions upgrade for the RE then they repair quickly that much is true. But their engineers are also tied between keeping emplacements up (if you're daft enough to build them these days) and repairing their only relevant tank which is the Churchill.

Using that logic

But you're not using any logic here and are grasping at straws.
You can't even tell a faction theme and unique perk, each faction has one.

My 2 cents about a 5-men-stock upgrade for wehr:

1. As long as Brits have bolster stock upgrade and Soviets can get 7 men conscripts there is no reason why OSt SHOULD NOT get his own stock upgrade to improve the unit size.

2. Give OST the 5-men/1G43 stock upgrade but make it later available than the upgrade from German Infantry.

3. 5-men stock upgrade available after setting up Support / Heavy Panzer corps.

"German Infantry" will still be attractive because you can get the upgrade earlier and Ost has to fight the majority of the game with 4 men units. But when the arty slugfest starts the faction finally can field 5 men squads who dont die like flies. It would improve the late game of a faction that is designed to dominate the late game.

+1

Logic Approved. Upgrade after setting either Support / Heavy Panzer Corps. Good timing and balancing!