A potential solution to the retreat wipes from garrisonable cars.
Units inside an open-top vehicle receive an accuracy penalty when it moves. I propose cranking this penalty up (down?) from it's usual 0.5 to 0.1. In practice, that means 10% accuracy for a garrisoned squad.
This is fairly realistic: if units are only 50% as accurate while walking, they're not going to hit much at all firing out out a rattling, moving car with non-mounted weapons.
This shouldn't impede the ability of garrisoned cars to force retreats (just hit Stop), but it should significantly reduce the damage the garrisoned units do to retreating squads. That in turn should help with the early game retreat wipe problem.
Moving Accuracy Penalty for Garrisoned Squads
23 Apr 2019, 11:30 AM
#1
Posts: 3260
23 Apr 2019, 11:58 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Why?
Retreat wipes happen, because you retreat too wounded squads which are too far on the front, not because what's inside M3 or 250. Overextending is the main cause of retreat wipes, not accuracy.
There already is accuracy penalty against retreating troops and it stacks with moving accuracy penalty of such garrisons.
Retreat wipes happen, because you retreat too wounded squads which are too far on the front, not because what's inside M3 or 250. Overextending is the main cause of retreat wipes, not accuracy.
There already is accuracy penalty against retreating troops and it stacks with moving accuracy penalty of such garrisons.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Apr 2019, 12:01 PM
#3
Posts: 951
I vote yes, but this will only affect non-clowncar wipes (mainly the Cav Riflemen with Thompsons in a WC51). I do not think (correct me if I am wrong) that this will affect Flamethrowers.
NON VOS TURBATIS
23 Apr 2019, 12:10 PM
#4
Posts: 3260
Why?
Retreat wipes happen, because you retreat too wounded squads which are too far on the front, not because what's inside M3 or 250. Overextending is the main cause of retreat wipes, not accuracy.
There already is accuracy penalty against retreating troops and it stacks with moving accuracy penalty of such garrisons.
If you're wiping a retreating squad with the mounted MG on an M3 Scout Car, then fair enough, your opponent screwed up.
But the damage output on something like a Thompson Cav Rifle WC51 is huge. We're not talking two models retreating from the enemy cutoff here, we're talking a full health squad retreating from the middle of the map.
This is the only way I can think of to fix that without nerfing either unit to oblivion.
23 Apr 2019, 12:18 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If you're wiping a retreating squad with the mounted MG on an M3 Scout Car, then fair enough, your opponent screwed up.
But the damage output on something like a Thompson Cav Rifle WC51 is huge. We're not talking two models retreating from the enemy cutoff here, we're talking a full health squad retreating from the middle of the map.
This is the only way I can think of to fix that without nerfing either unit to oblivion.
Not spreading your infantry(moving in pairs close to one another) is also a way to fix it.
I'm well aware what cav rifles/PGs in 250 can do, but you're looking at massive resource difference here and retreat was never supposed to be free out of jail card. Why expensive vehicles are justified to die within seconds of getting into their hardcounter range, but infantry that's being chased with no cover from other units should escape?
Identify strat of your opponent and play it safe until you have your own counter on the field. Quite important lesson from Jesulin back in the day.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Apr 2019, 20:16 PM
#7
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
invised post for trolling
23 Apr 2019, 20:46 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
So the problem is basically the usf, not garrisoned squads.
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23 Apr 2019, 22:48 PM
#9
Posts: 3260
So the problem is basically the usf, not garrisoned squads.
The WC51 Cav Rifle combo is the main troublemaker, but it's not the only way to make a wipe machine. It's just the most accesssible.
23 Apr 2019, 23:02 PM
#10
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
Remove cav rifles from mechanized. It was stupid idea and its time to acknowledge that.
24 Apr 2019, 07:49 AM
#11
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
In what way is making Cavalry Riflemen an option for a Mechanized commander a bad plan.
A commander specifically designed to promote synergy play between light vehicles and mechanized infantry, with a light vehicle designed to be rebuilt repeatedly if lost to bring commander style abilities and help make the most of combined arms.
If anything doesn't fit it's the 76mm. But we don't have AT halftracks so whatcha gonna do.
A commander specifically designed to promote synergy play between light vehicles and mechanized infantry, with a light vehicle designed to be rebuilt repeatedly if lost to bring commander style abilities and help make the most of combined arms.
If anything doesn't fit it's the 76mm. But we don't have AT halftracks so whatcha gonna do.
24 Apr 2019, 09:20 AM
#12
Posts: 2243
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943:
Sitting with your bazookas in a 60km/h fast driving truck around the field and want to shot on a driving target.
YOu must calc/predict the own moving + target moving + speed from rocket + compensate the vibration from the own truck and must look to the little visier...
How insane good do you must be to hit the target??
1. unless you has a lucky shot: impossible
2. you must be chuck norris
3. the balance is bs and must get a Penalty when driving around
Sitting with your bazookas in a 60km/h fast driving truck around the field and want to shot on a driving target.
YOu must calc/predict the own moving + target moving + speed from rocket + compensate the vibration from the own truck and must look to the little visier...
How insane good do you must be to hit the target??
1. unless you has a lucky shot: impossible
2. you must be chuck norris
3. the balance is bs and must get a Penalty when driving around
24 Apr 2019, 09:26 AM
#13
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943:
Sitting with your bazookas in a 60km/h fast driving truck around the field and want to shot on a driving target.
How insane good do you must be to hit the target??
1. unless you has a lucky shot: impossible
2. you must be chuck norris
3. the balance is bs and must get a Penalty when driving around
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943.
You die after 10 direct hits from Garand or 5 from Lee Enfield.
You also die after after 20 hits from SMG.
Any less then that and you won't even slow a bit.
If you are wounded after taking many shots, you just sprint back to the base, where a "medic" shows you couple of tricks with his/hers hands and it makes you so overjoyed that you self regenerate on the spot in a matter of seconds, Wolverine style and happily go back to combat.
Imagine Panther having better gun then Comet, despite the opposite being a historical fact.
Imagine that you can literally stand on an exploding grenade and it will not kill you, because it was thrown over small stone wall, but it would totally bone you if the wall was not there.
Imagine its not a real life, but an arcade computer game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Apr 2019, 09:30 AM
#14
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Inagine you are a soldier in 1943:
A conscript fires and hits you in the chest with a Mosin Nagant
Do you just stand there and keep firing back untul you take eight more rounds? No. No you do not.
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943. You and your Panzergrenadier buddy both climb into a tiny shed and you both fire your panzershrecks out of the windows. Are you perfectly fine? No, you just set your arse on fire and dropped a shed roof on your head.
The 'but muh realizm' argument is bad and you should feel bad for using it.
There's already a 50% accuracy penalty. Literally half as many hits. That is plenty. These light vehicles have to move so much just to wiggle around terrain and kite fausts that any more renders them nearly pointless.
A conscript fires and hits you in the chest with a Mosin Nagant
Do you just stand there and keep firing back untul you take eight more rounds? No. No you do not.
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943. You and your Panzergrenadier buddy both climb into a tiny shed and you both fire your panzershrecks out of the windows. Are you perfectly fine? No, you just set your arse on fire and dropped a shed roof on your head.
The 'but muh realizm' argument is bad and you should feel bad for using it.
There's already a 50% accuracy penalty. Literally half as many hits. That is plenty. These light vehicles have to move so much just to wiggle around terrain and kite fausts that any more renders them nearly pointless.
24 Apr 2019, 09:37 AM
#15
Posts: 2243
Imagine you are a soldier in 1943.
You die after 10 direct hits from Garand or 5 from Lee Enfield.
You also die after after 20 hits from SMG.
Any less then that and you won't even slow a bit.
If you are wounded after taking many shots, you just sprint back to the base, where a "medic" shows you couple of tricks with his/hers hands and it makes you so overjoyed that you self regenerate on the spot in a matter of seconds, Wolverine style and happily go back to combat.
it wasnt like many soldiers gets wounded by shots, get a healing from medic (not that fast..) and get back to front after the healing from your wounds. So what is your argue here? that is not all in real time?
24 Apr 2019, 09:43 AM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
it wasnt like many soldiers gets wounded by shots, get a healing from medic (not that fast..) and get back to front after the healing from your wounds. So what is your argue here? that is not all in real time?
I'm quite positive not many ww2 soldiers who got shot 4 to 19 times to the chest got back to see medics and then go back to the field.
You might have went a bit too much ahead of you with your ubermensch believes.
Point is, again, its an arcade RTS game, you can shove your "reality" claims up your Berlin bunker.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Apr 2019, 09:44 AM
#17
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Currently 5 models can fire out of the USF halftrack. I think this should be reduced to 4 models like the Soviet and Ostheer halftracks, now that USF mechanized has a very strong thompson squad to put in it.
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