For a tank which is as expensive as an SU85, the Panzer 4 has been nerfed so heavily a few patches back that it is as ineffective against infantry as the panther.
From the perspective of the German player it makes no sense to go for a Pz 4 when you can call in a panther or StuG for far better AT and for anti infantry an ostwind is miles better.
The Panzer 4 feels like the abandoned child and the proof is in the meta game where I hardly see it built either when i play Germans or as Soviets.
Right now a Pz4 needs to get at least some of its anti inf accuracy for its main gun back. Its ridiculous to watch it fire 10 shots on a conscript squad and miss each one. Contrast this to the 85 fuel t34 which now is only slightly on par AT wise and can sometimes 1 shot an entire German squad.
Panzer 4 needs an anti infantry buff
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7 Oct 2013, 10:24 AM
#1
Posts: 168
7 Oct 2013, 10:25 AM
#2
Posts: 89
You are insane if you're really serious about this post.
I've been playing soviets alot lately and it's incredibly accurate, it even hit a retreating shock troop killing two RETREATING men in ONE shot, effectively killing the entire squad.
Delete this post for gods sake.
I've been playing soviets alot lately and it's incredibly accurate, it even hit a retreating shock troop killing two RETREATING men in ONE shot, effectively killing the entire squad.
Delete this post for gods sake.
7 Oct 2013, 10:29 AM
#4
Posts: 829
For a tank which is as expensive as an SU85, the Panzer 4 has been nerfed so heavily a few patches back that it is as ineffective against infantry as the panther.
From the perspective of the German player it makes no sense to go for a Pz 4 when you can call in a panther or StuG for far better AT and for anti infantry an ostwind is miles better.
The Panzer 4 feels like the abandoned child and the proof is in the meta game where I hardly see it built either when i play Germans or as Soviets.
Right now a Pz4 needs to get at least some of its anti inf accuracy for its main gun back. Its ridiculous to watch it fire 10 shots on a conscript squad and miss each one. Contrast this to the 85 fuel t34 which now is only slightly on par AT wise and can sometimes 1 shot an entire German squad.
Are you still playing COH2? You haven't by some chance started playing SC2, that would be why you don't see Piv's
7 Oct 2013, 10:42 AM
#5
Posts: 934
For a tank which is as expensive as an SU85, the Panzer 4 has been nerfed so heavily a few patches back that it is as ineffective against infantry as the panther.
From the perspective of the German player it makes no sense to go for a Pz 4 when you can call in a panther or StuG for far better AT and for anti infantry an ostwind is miles better.
The Panzer 4 feels like the abandoned child and the proof is in the meta game where I hardly see it built either when i play Germans or as Soviets.
Right now a Pz4 needs to get at least some of its anti inf accuracy for its main gun back. Its ridiculous to watch it fire 10 shots on a conscript squad and miss each one. Contrast this to the 85 fuel t34 which now is only slightly on par AT wise and can sometimes 1 shot an entire German squad.
No. You answered your own question.
If you want a hard counter to tanks you get a Stug and if you want hard infantry counter you get an Ostwind. Not sure what to make or need a bit of both? Then get a P4, but really going 1 of the other 2 is the more approriate hard counter for a situation. Having P4's to strong is a bad thing because it makes for boring playstyles because a player knows its safe to spam that one unit, as per previous patches.
The P4 and T34 situation is balanced now. T34 does not counter a P4 in a 1v1 engagement.
7 Oct 2013, 10:59 AM
#6
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
Fixed .... biased soviet fangirls please dont bother to comment
Way to go and edit quotes like a pro.
I think that the P4 is preforming well for its price. It can kill infantry quite handily, even use blitzkrieg for crushfest. If you want AI build ostwind. Problem solved.
7 Oct 2013, 11:22 AM
#7
Posts: 401
I think this guy is 5thSS from the COH2 official forums. 
Anyway, no, the P4 is mostly fine right now. It's everything else around it that may need tweaking.
If you want more infantry killing ability, get the top MG gunner upgrade and keep it facing infantry, 3 MGs and a cannon will drive off most types of infantry. Oh and keep your micro up to drive it away from charging infantry, and plan your attacks with escape routes.
Medium tanks are supposed to be very useful in general combat, but not super survivable. You need to micro them well to keep them alive.
Anyway, no, the P4 is mostly fine right now. It's everything else around it that may need tweaking.
If you want more infantry killing ability, get the top MG gunner upgrade and keep it facing infantry, 3 MGs and a cannon will drive off most types of infantry. Oh and keep your micro up to drive it away from charging infantry, and plan your attacks with escape routes.
Medium tanks are supposed to be very useful in general combat, but not super survivable. You need to micro them well to keep them alive.
7 Oct 2013, 11:55 AM
#9
Posts: 896
Fixed .... biased soviet fangirls please dont bother to comment
omg this is how you start right after your suspension finished?
And to reply to your comment the tank is good against infantry and very often I end a game with 20 infantry kills or more on a single panzer 4.
7 Oct 2013, 12:49 PM
#10
Posts: 480
The P-IV is really strong and very popular. Don't be silly.
Edit: for the record, I play both factions about equally and am a better Ostheer player than a Soviet player.
Edit: for the record, I play both factions about equally and am a better Ostheer player than a Soviet player.
7 Oct 2013, 13:51 PM
#11
1 
Posts: 1006
I play both factions as well and I think the PIV is perfectly fine.
As Ostheer you have so many other anti-infantry options, LMG upgrade, MG42, pgrens that can kill any infantries except Shocktroops (which are 440mp) halftrack with flamers and not to mention the Ostwind is incredibly powerful. You just can't leave your PIV alone and expect it to kill everything, you need to support it like you need to support any other units in game.
I personally think the PIV is one of the most versatile armor unit, add smoke and vet 1 Blitzkrieg and not to mention v2 skirts and you might have the best unit in the game.
As Ostheer you have so many other anti-infantry options, LMG upgrade, MG42, pgrens that can kill any infantries except Shocktroops (which are 440mp) halftrack with flamers and not to mention the Ostwind is incredibly powerful. You just can't leave your PIV alone and expect it to kill everything, you need to support it like you need to support any other units in game.
I personally think the PIV is one of the most versatile armor unit, add smoke and vet 1 Blitzkrieg and not to mention v2 skirts and you might have the best unit in the game.
7 Oct 2013, 14:11 PM
#12
Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1
I don't agree, the P4 feels balanced for its cost.
7 Oct 2013, 15:03 PM
#13
Posts: 45
No. You answered your own question.
If you want a hard counter to tanks you get a Stug and if you want hard infantry counter you get an Ostwind. Not sure what to make or need a bit of both? Then get a P4, but really going 1 of the other 2 is the more approriate hard counter for a situation. Having P4's to strong is a bad thing because it makes for boring playstyles because a player knows its safe to spam that one unit, as per previous patches.
The P4 and T34 situation is balanced now. T34 does not counter a P4 in a 1v1 engagement.
totaly agree
7 Oct 2013, 15:18 PM
#14
Posts: 604
I don't think the P4 needs an AI buff.
If anything, it could be made slightly more consistent (fewer full misses but also fewer very good hits) but to achieve this, you'd have to change so many values that it'll just end up broken one way or another. So I don't see this coming either way.
This at least means the Ostwind has a niche (which it lacked for a long time because of the overall meta).
If anything, it could be made slightly more consistent (fewer full misses but also fewer very good hits) but to achieve this, you'd have to change so many values that it'll just end up broken one way or another. So I don't see this coming either way.
This at least means the Ostwind has a niche (which it lacked for a long time because of the overall meta).
7 Oct 2013, 15:40 PM
#15
Posts: 589
it's the panther that needs a slight AI buff IMO, P4 is fine
7 Oct 2013, 15:40 PM
#16
Posts: 747
The Panzer IV is perfectly fine as is.
7 Oct 2013, 16:16 PM
#17
Posts: 954
I think PZIV should buff to something exactly like T-34/85, only 3 seconds longer reload time with same penetration&damage, and can make cheap double call-in with only 260 fuel, and BTW, doctrinal, but, but, but you get AI! Right? You get AI!
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
7 Oct 2013, 16:31 PM
#18
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
I can tell you through past experience that when the Panzer IV had an anti-infantry buff and accuracy increase everyone would just spam it to death. The current Panzer IV is adequate enough to deal with both infantry and tanks, so no need to buff it again and just end up with another patch after that nerfing it even more.
8 Oct 2013, 09:22 AM
#19
Posts: 1439
it's the panther that needs a slight AI buff IMO, P4 is fine
Panther is more than fine as it is right now.
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