I hear the new patches have made western allies op?

I don't wanna quote the person who said this but, he said "every single game is infantry section spam and blob and USF airborne abuse." No, that person is not an axis fanboy. I haven't tried the new patches so I'm making this thread to ask about general state of balance in the new patch. USF does not need any buffs in particular because the tech structure change was a quite a big buff already. I also hear the controversy that some feel the Assgrens are still UP even after the -5% buff to RA. I hope none of this is true but I wouldn't be surprised if it was due to the track record of the bal team/Relic.

For 1v1, Soviets on the back burner and OST in its worst state in a long time. Sounds accurate to me. I know who said this though, and the context was 2v2.

Invised posts for offtopic. If you're gonna take a shot at someone, at least have some content for the thread.

Ostheer is not in a good place right now, OKW is fine. Other than that I don't think there's that many major balance issues. Ostheer could use a few buffs here and there, such as Pgrens, Assgrens and Grenadiers.

Ostheer has many strengths but in my experience the core difficulty is scaling infantry into the late game, since Ostheer lacks the elite infantry that OKW has that allow you to stay and compete. Ostheer vehicles are in good shape though, maybe a buff to the Ostwind or a price reduction is in order.

I've been playing a lot of Ostheer lately and trying to make it work the main issues are with your core infantry just not being able to keep up into the late game.

I don't think "allies OP" is the issue, it's that Ostheer has glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

+100 to Flyingmonster

Ost has never been in a good spot since 2014, it was a crutch faction that relied on a few units like the OP Stug, OP StugE and OP mortar and panic puma to make up for everything else which is badly underpowered. Now all of these units are nerfed (and Stug is likely overnerfed) with not enough in compensation. Panther and p4 is better while Stug and Ostwind are now trash. For a faction that was never in a good spot, the situation went from bad to worse. Meanwhile, SU is no longer on the "EFA powerlevel," as it was powercreeped to roughly WFA levels. Cons didn't get a straight combat buff, but they got a reliability buff in that their long range is now respectable in the early and midgame. Penals are very strong to borderline OP in certain situations. And don't even start with the fake excuse that penals lock out support weapons. If you can get a sniper and/or clown car, YOU DON'T NEED SUPPORT WEAPONS as those two units do the exact same thing as support weapons, but take more skill (but the reward is bigger too, due to higher wipe potential with clown car.) The only faction that needs to "support" their mainlines is Ost, a faction that lives and dies by the mg42. While cons get a reliability buff, grens are still weak as ever and there's no 1 min pgren that SU gets if we don't want to use grens. Now grens are outgunned by ALL THREE ALLIED FACTIONS (since at least half the time SU opts for a penal build)

I hate it when people lump Ost into "axis op." There's a major difference in power level between OKW and Ost. I'd say the only faction that was never UP is OKW. It was always great. First the days when volks were 235mp, and got insane RA bonuses, schreck blob, KT = autowin, walking stuka oneshotting even the sturdiest buildings, then came the stg volks which were too cost efficient with 5 levels of combat vet. And there was a time when EVERYBODY would rush luchs. Then the flaktrack was buffed and then, the JLI meme was born. There's ALWAYS some build order for OKW that was batshit op. This can't be said for Ost as Ost hasn't had any batshit op build order.

Ostheer is not in a good place right now, OKW is fine. Other than that I don't think there's that many major balance issues. Ostheer could use a few buffs here and there, such as Pgrens, Assgrens and Grenadiers.

Ostheer has many strengths but in my experience the core difficulty is scaling infantry into the late game, since Ostheer lacks the elite infantry that OKW has that allow you to stay and compete. Ostheer vehicles are in good shape though, maybe a buff to the Ostwind or a price reduction is in order.

I've been playing a lot of Ostheer lately and trying to make it work the main issues are with your core infantry just not being able to keep up into the late game.

I don't think "allies OP" is the issue, it's that Ostheer has glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

The statement is self contradicting. Ostheer is the benchmark. If the faction has glaring weakness than other factions are "OP" and should be brought down to Ostheer level.

In 2v2 it´s not just an Ostheer problem even though I agree Ostheer is even worse than OKW. Soviets are fine and balanced IMO, despite the buffs to KV8, KV2, Shocks and M42s.

USF just got buffed through the roof by the tech and commander changes. I agree USF was UP before the last commander patch but now they are too good.

Pak Howi, 50 cal, Jackson and WC51 should not be as good as they are just compared to any comparable unit across all factions.

Then there is the problematic Airborne/Recon Support meta. In high level automatch 2v2s you will see these doctrines in 80% of games and I am personally sick of it to the point of not even wanting to play either Axis faction.

UKF is also too strong after getting easier access to a snare and buffed Sexton, Valentine and Crocodile.

The statement is self contradicting. Ostheer is the benchmark. If the faction has glaring weakness than other factions are "OP" and should be brought down to Ostheer level.

So in the footsteps of Ostheer we should give all factions 4 model mainline infantry that constantly gets wiped late game by all explosive weapons?

no buffs to Ost. They have best MG, best Unique faction design (FREE weapon upgrade with tech!!!) and a PREMIUM tier that literally nobody else get!

nerf okw to make ost viable!

So in the footsteps of Ostheer we should give all factions 4 model mainline infantry that constantly gets wiped late game by all explosive weapons?

That is a very weird conclusion and totally irrelevant to my point.

In order to balance the game one needs to decide a power level, then create a unit at that power level and balance all other units compare to the "benchmark".

That does not mean that they should all be the same. They can be better or worse taking into account cost, time, faction design...But they should be compared to the benchmark.

If the "benchmark" is UP, it mean one need another benchmark or everything else is OP.

no buffs to Ost. They have best MG, best Unique faction design (FREE weapon upgrade with tech!!!) and a PREMIUM tier that literally nobody else get!

nerf okw to make ost viable!

Logic? OST is bad if you turn down OKW then you have 2! bad axis factions.

Logic? OST is bad if you turn down OKW then you have 2! bad axis factions.

(that's actually vippers logic here, don't buff single up unit, nerf 15 other ones, because apparently that's easier somehow)

Ostheer is not in a good place right now, OKW is fine. Other than that I don't think there's that many major balance issues. Ostheer could use a few buffs here and there, such as Pgrens, Assgrens and Grenadiers.

Ostheer has many strengths but in my experience the core difficulty is scaling infantry into the late game, since Ostheer lacks the elite infantry that OKW has that allow you to stay and compete. Ostheer vehicles are in good shape though, maybe a buff to the Ostwind or a price reduction is in order.

I've been playing a lot of Ostheer lately and trying to make it work the main issues are with your core infantry just not being able to keep up into the late game.

I don't think "allies OP" is the issue, it's that Ostheer has glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

+

Ostheer is not in a good place right now, OKW is fine. Other than that I don't think there's that many major balance issues. Ostheer could use a few buffs here and there, such as Pgrens, Assgrens and Grenadiers.

I don't think okw are fine, I'm still placed against overwatch doctrine every other game.

+

what made you change your mind..?

I don't think okw are fine, I'm still placed against overwatch doctrine every other game.

OKW is frustrating for axis AND allied players. Overwatch and Specops are too strong and on the other side OKW AT and tech structure is terrible.

It's Ostheer that's underperforming in every stage of the game.

Fragile infantry (Grens) that can't compete with BARS and Brens.

Lackluster "elite" infantry (PGs) that can't compete with Bars and Brens.

Inferior midgame (T70, Stuart, AEC leave you on the back foot).

And a lategame that is mediocre at best and absolutely inferior to Brits (Tiger, Ostwind < Churchill, Centaur). Aka no reward for holding out that long. It's characteristic, that Brummbär, Elefant got significant nerfs while multiple Allied lategame units got buffs/ stayed the same. Ost lategame was neutered for no compensation.

And before I hear the "l2p" posts, I'm playing this game and it's predecessor for more than a decade now. I know what I'm doing.