OKW - Grand Offensive - Feedback

Since its first inception, OKW commander has gone from interesting, to boring to play.
The Wehr one is more fun than it originally was.

OKM design got gradually boring and simpler, even those aspects of raw strenght got nerfed somehow and original content got cloned into other factions, removing its original aspects.
Maybe OP as it originally was designed, but people still complaint nowdays about OKM being OP.
In conclusion: people always complaint. Sometimes they are right, not always it the best solution to listen their complaints.

This commander was doomed from the start LMAO

My opinion about the 3.0 changes and the basic commander:
"Tiger
-Now requires all trucks converted to be called-in; same as the King Tiger."

I think the Ost Tiger is mediocre at best (as far as i remember: the tiger 1 was rarely used in the last 2vs2 tournament, while the is2 saw plenty usage) and its greatest strength is, that it is a call-in unit and enables tech skipping. Building all 3 trucks is a heavy investment. And even then it has to compete with the non doc KT.
My suggestion:
2.
-Tiger 1 is buildable in the schwerer hq and its cost is rebalanced to 650 Mp and 250 fuel to minimaze its shock value.

• Don't think Tiger would have any shock value if it would come earlier but buildable in T4. Acually the cost of the unit should be only higher if it's simple call-in and not buildable from a structure. With current design Tiger I can be used similary to Commander Panther, so after going heavily T2 (p2, puma, 2xstuka etc.). With that you save the cost of a T4 (300 MP and 130 fuel saved in your bank). It's way diffrent when it would be buildable in Tier 4. It would be much bigger resources investment. It would come 90 fuel later than currently P4 does. In competitive match it's 4-5 min later and in a game where you skip any form of light vehicule it should come around 18 min mark. If you don't have a counter by then you do something wrong.
  
  
• Tiger I is the main unit in the commander that people voted on. It cannot be replaced.
  
  
• Although you correctly notice that command abilities for this unit doesn't really make sense - especially when after reaching vet3 this unit becomes one of the best units in the game - a true 1 unit army. As a player i don't see the point of using the ability to buff nearbly squads and in the same time nerf my best unit. Plz consider at least to share vetterancy while ability is active.
  
  
• Expect from above maybe balance team will consider changing the vet system and requirement for this unit to make command abilities more accessible? I would see this like that:
  vet 1 - Combat Blitz,
  vet 2 - Inspiration to infantry - vet requirement is between ostheer vet2 and vet1
  vet 3 - +5 range, +20% accuracy, -20% scatter - cost like ostheer vet2
  vet 4 - Inspiration to tanks
  vet 5 - vet requirement same as ostheer vet3. -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
  
  That will allow player to use the command abilities much earlier when Tiger isn't on his highest vet so the temporary nerf won't be so much punishing. Again the Vet requirement shouldn't be also so high becouse the command abilities have downsizes. We don't want to make it's vet4 and vet5 ability dead like it was done with LeFH. I would say it's at least worth a shot to try it in the mod and see how it goes.

I think use reworked TigerAce can solve problem .....
I guess balance team want OKW more use PanzerHQ when they chose this commander，so give new commander Panzer commander upgrade，but still dont want tiger with panzer commander OP，so let tiger call in same as KT.....
So why not use Tigerace replace it？TigerAce can not upgrade panzer commander，and need more CP，it will make OKW player play safe deploy PanzerHQ.
Also reworked TigerACE is powerful unit，if balance team must let tiger call in like KT---if I chose between KT and normal Tiger，I will chose KT without hesitation. But KT and TigerAce，I will think it over seriously ，see which better in battlefield

• Don't think Tiger would have any shock value if it would come earlier but buildable in T4. Acually the cost of the unit should be only higher if it's simple call-in and not buildable from a structure. With current design Tiger I can be used similary to Commander Panther, so after going heavily T2 (p2, puma, 2xstuka etc.). With that you save the cost of a T4 (300 MP and 130 fuel saved in your bank). It's way diffrent when it would be buildable in Tier 4. It would be much bigger resources investment. It would come 90 fuel later than currently P4 does. In competitive match it's 4-5 min later and in a game where you skip any form of light vehicule it should come around 18 min mark. If you don't have a counter by then you do something wrong.

Thats right when we talk about about 1vs1 (and maybe 2vs2), but in bigger teamgames the fuel income increases, while the cp income stays the same or is even lower.
Rushing t4 in these games is a better tactic than stalling for a command panther.
And i think a Tiger 1 has more shock value than a command panther (due to its fighting power against infantry and support weapons).
But how efficient is it to rush a Tiger? We could compare a Comet rush to a Tiger 1 in T4 rush.
The Comet needs a 1310 MP and 415 fuel investment (with bolster squads ofc), while the Okw player has to invest 'only' 1240 MP and 405 fuel to get the Tiger 1 (with the current price) on the field.
I think even in 2vs2 a Tiger 1 in t4 could get faster on the field than a 13CP call-in Tiger.
That could be more problematic in teamgames.
My suggested cost increase is with 10 Mp and 20 fuel not even that high.
And should come with a little combat buff (compared to the current Ost Tiger). And i think OKW with anti-tank Pfs is more than capable to fight against light and medium vehicles.

"in bigger teamgames the fuel income increases, while the cp income stays the same or is even lower. Rushing t4 in these games is a better tactic than stalling for a command panther."

and so their natural counters - non doctrinal tank destroyers also come ealier. Your concerns are unfounded.

In 1 way you think Tiger is coming too early with decent shock value so therefore the price must go up and on the other hand you claim that it needs a buff. Your idea to increase it's performance for a really small price (less than 1 min of income) will only then make it a dangerous, shock unit which isn't right now. So let's just do the math and reduce our idae with the buff with price increase.

Tiger I will be a non brain call-in tank with heavy T2 tactic but it's not even near the command panther. Both units perform diffrently and fill diffrent roles. Tiger is in wierd spot right now and it gains it full potensial only after reaching vet2. It's definitly not worth 250 fuel.

"in bigger teamgames the fuel income increases, while the cp income stays the same or is even lower. Rushing t4 in these games is a better tactic than stalling for a command panther."

and so their natural counters - non doctrinal tank destroyers also come ealier. Your concerns are unfounded.

In 1 way you think Tiger is coming too early with decent shock value so therefore the price must go up and on the other hand you claim that it needs a buff. Your idea to increase it's performance for a really small price (less than 1 min of income) will only then make it a dangerous, shock unit which isn't right now. So let's just do the math and reduce our idae with the buff with price increase.

Tiger I will be a non brain call-in tank with heavy T2 tactic but it's not even near the command panther. Both units perform diffrently and fill diffrent roles. Tiger is in wierd spot right now and it gains it full potensial only after reaching vet2. It's definitly not worth 250 fuel.

You are probably right about the shock value in teamgames, but forcing early tank destroyers could give axis an advantage in the inf and arty battles.
This small buffs are neither there to increase the offensive power of the Tiger, nor to make the Tiger immune to tank destroyer. It still retains slower speed than most vehicles, can still be reliable penetrated by tank destroyers and still has an inferior attack range. My intention is to let the unit sustain fights easier. Faster speed to retreat to safer places, more armor to sustain support weapon fire, or turret speed for more flexibility. None of this buffs increase the shock value compared to an OKW P4, who arrives earlier.
But i think the current OKW Tiger is neither viable as a call-in (compared to command panther), nor with 3 built trucks. Do you think the unit is fine now or what is your impression?

I'd replace the Command Tiger with the new Tiger Ace. That solves the skin issue, and makes it a unit worth waiting for. I'd either keep it as a call-in (stalling for a Tiger Ace is painful) or gate it behind the SPHQ.

Nobody's going to build another truck for a Tiger I when they can build two OKW P4s instead.

Tiger
-Now requires all trucks converted to be called-in; same as the King Tiger.

-> no reason to build Tiger
replace to Tiger ace or roll back plz

What about restoring Assault Packages and adding Sturmpioneer double Panzershrecks to it?

That allows you to remove them from the Panzerfusiliers, ending that design headache, and means you add double AT infantry to Feuersturm instead of Breakthrough.

Breakthrough doesn't need it, but Feuersturm desperately wants something other than Raketenwerfers to support a Flame Hetzer.

I like Stark's idea of reworking the Tiger's Inspire ability to make it more usable. It might be nice if it worked like Command Panther Aura and unlocks at Vet 1 but becomes progressively better with each level of Vet. Being locked behind Vet 4-5 is kind of pointless for how often the Tiger is liable to actually reach that level.

Another idea would be to have 2 separate Command Abilities - one for infantry and one for vehicles. The infantry ability might work like Combined Arms and *not* nerf the Tiger's ability - it's MUCH more usable for those likely situations where the Tiger is your lone piece of armor supporting infantry. The vehicle ability could be geared towards swarm/blitzkrieg tactics and nerf the tiger's combat ability in favor of tactical armor play.

Some people will probably hate me but why not replace the Tiger I with the Brummbaer?

I know of course that the Tiger was an integretal part of Kpen's submission and i can fully understand if you wanna stick to it. But in my eyes the Tiger offers more problems than solutions. So read at least my arguments for the Brummbaer before you call me a heretic

Advantages of the Brummbaer:

• Brummbaer available in "Schweres HQ"
  
• Brumm fits to the theme
  
• Gives OKW elite and reliable AI, unit is much cheaper (65 fuel!!!)than the Tiger
  
• Unit would be awesome in combination with JP4, Brumm + JP4 = 290 fuel, Tiger I=230 fuel
  
• OKW players have to tech and cant be saved by a call-in heavy
  
  
  
  
  

Some people will probably hate me but why not replace the Tiger I with the Brummbaer?

I know of course that the Tiger was an integretal part of Kpen's submission and i can fully understand if you wanna stick to it. But in my eyes the Tiger offers more problems than solutions. So read at least my arguments for the Brummbaer before you call me a heretic

Advantages of the Brummbaer:

• Brummbaer available in "Schweres HQ"
  
• Brumm fits to the theme
  
• Gives OKW elite and reliable AI, unit is much cheaper (65 fuel!!!)than the Tiger
  
• Unit would be awesome in combination with JP4, Brumm + JP4 = 290 fuel, Tiger I=230 fuel
  
• OKW players have to tech and cant be saved by a call-in heavy
  
  
  
  
  

No offense dude but I would rather they reworked/fixed the Sturmtiger, OKW already has a doctrinal assault gun and it doesn't need another one, just my opinion.

Plus there's voice lines for the Tiger and StuG call ins, and I think the MG crew mentions something of "loading up in a halftrack" so there's that as well.

Maybe a StuG III E would fit in more tho, not to replace the Tiger I hope but it's a nice idea.

Plus there's voice lines for the Tiger and StuG call ins, and I think the MG crew mentions something of "loading up in a halftrack" so there's that as well.

A mechanized vehicle (250 HT with flamer upgrade) for Battlegroup HQ would be very welcome if you want to get rid of the Luchs /Puma into Heavy call-in.

I can understand your opinion about the Sturmtiger but the unit is imo just not reliable thats why i would prefer the Brumm even above the much better reworked Sturmtiger version.

A mechanized vehicle (250 HT with flamer upgrade) for Battlegroup HQ would be very welcome if you want to get rid of the Luchs /Puma into Heavy call-in.

I can understand your opinion about the Sturmtiger but the unit is imo just not reliable thats why i would prefer the Brumm even above the much better reworked Sturmtiger version.

Part of the reason they removed Radio Relay from Strategic Reserves was the lack of voice lines for the ability so yeah...

I think the StuG III E will be your best bet for a new assault gun for OKW to be honest, again, just an opinion.

The commander was good already and it worked really well as a more agressive version of spec ops. None of these changes look good tbh. I really hope they roll back to 2.0 version

The commander was good already and it worked really well as a more agressive version of spec ops. None of these changes look good tbh. I really hope they roll back to 2.0 version

Agreed, at least the "Tank commander" should be replaced with a real off-map artillery ability Sector Artillery fits so well and needs a rework, please put it in!

Some people will probably hate me but why not replace the Tiger I with the Brummbaer?
I know of course that the Tiger was an integretal part of Kpen's submission and i can fully understand if you wanna stick to it. But in my eyes the Tiger offers more problems than solutions. So read at least my arguments for the Brummbaer before you call me a heretic

I read it and i just want to say - you are a heretic!

Agreed, at least the "Tank commander" should be replaced with a real off-map artillery ability Sector Artillery fits so well and needs a rework, please put it in!

Acually this ability gives you option to call off-map artillery strike. It also buffs Tiger accuracy so that's also good. For me, it's a usefull ability and it's definitely not a "key" ability for EliteArmor which make that doctrine amazing in any form to restrict it only there.

If hard to balance OKW tiger make balance team use this way....I would rather use mortar HT or StugE replace tiger....