Soviet - Airbourne feedback

PTAB can be used the same way as bombing run, deals roughly same damage to buildings and howitzers.

Eh, sure. I thought the il-2 precision strike was more consistent in wiping Lefh/pak43.

Delete svt drop and add svt upgrade for cons

Svt drop will make many issue(bug, balance)

Can anybody explain to me what balance issue the svt is going to cause at present because I absolutely cannot see it. The SVT is the worst weapon upgrade the allies can get, and USF/UKF can always buy their own.

I still want something else entirely for cons in the new commander and the svt unlock as non-doc but, well. We can dream.

Can anybody explain to me what balance issue the svt is going to cause at present because I absolutely cannot see it. The SVT is the worst weapon upgrade the allies can get, and USF/UKF can always buy their own.

I still want something else entirely for cons in the new commander and the svt unlock as non-doc but, well. We can dream.

Test them and you might or watch some cast.
Check tightrope cast where he won using mostly SVT cons.
At some point Orangepest using using 6 men G43 PF (a 305+90mu unit)even complained about how high the DPS of SVT conscript was.

Test them and you might or watch some cast.
Check tightrope cast where he won using mostly SVT cons.
At some point Orangepest using using 6 men G43 PF (a 305+90mu unit)even complained about how high the DPS of SVT conscript was.

Ah yes. One guy complained and one guy was able to win with them. Compelling evidence.


Nothing when compared to the actual numbers where they're basically just a single bren gun with no damage concentraion.

Ah yes. One guy complained and one guy was able to win with them. Compelling evidence.


Nothing when compared to the actual numbers where they're basically just a single bren gun with no damage concentraion.

*less then half of a single bar

*less then half of a single bar

To be as fair as I can to both sides - that's each, right? Tell you what, lemme check.

The SVT uses the profile of the penal trooper svt.. as far as I am aware. If so:

A single bar deals between, approxinately, 13 damage at point blank down to 4 at maximum.
A single SVT deals between, approximately, 5 damage at point blank and 2 at maximum.

That said, every conscript mosin deals between 3.5 and 1 (approx)

So with a lot of rounding off, one Bar is an upgrade of 3dps at long and 9.5dps point blank

One SVT is similarly an upgrade of about 1dps at long and 1.5dps at point blank
So three SVTs is an upgrade of about 3dps at long, and 4.5dps point blank.


Seems to check out?

Its closer to 2 DPS at long range for all 3, but yes, close range DPS increase is 4,5.

Also, I highly advise you to edit "damage" for "DPS" before someone focused entirely on semantics will get on your ass.

Considering the effort involved in post editing on my phone, I'll run that risk.

What squad is this possibly going to be useful on in team games? Everything either has a better profile already or can get a better alternstive.

Ah yes. One guy complained and one guy was able to win with them. Compelling evidence.


Nothing when compared to the actual numbers where they're basically just a single bren gun with no damage concentraion.

Considering the effort involved in post editing on my phone, I'll run that risk.

What squad is this possibly going to be useful on in team games? Everything either has a better profile already or can get a better alternstive.

Since you are dismissive of Top players opinions, I simply suggest you test it in game, instead of asking.

Since you are dismissive of Top players opinions, I simply suggest you test it in game, instead of asking.

I'm dismissive of some unsubstabtiated off hand comments with no supporting information or justification. Why? Please explain your working to be allocated any marks.

I've laid out the rough numbers. The entire SVT packake is worse than a single BAR by a large margin.

Therefore I believe their impact to entirely minimal.

Instead of 'oh but one bloke said so', how about you explain to me why you believe this isn't an accurate assessment?

In what circumstances and when used on what squad is the SVT package 'broken'?

It may be easy to remove the SVT drop and replace it with the Guards T-34 / T-34-85 as it was on October 3, 1941 when 6,000 paratroopers (deployed by air) together with the 4th Tank Brigade (renamed November 11, 1941
in the 1st Guards Tank Brigade) stopped the German offensive in the Mtsensk area.

Guards T-34s may have other abilities like: APDS shells, ambush (Typical and successful tactics of the 1st Guards Tank Brigade), etc. The T-34-76 can be with extra armor like this:
Show Spoiler

I'm dismissive of some unsubstabtiated off hand comments with no supporting information or justification. Why? Please explain your working to be allocated any marks.

I've laid out the rough numbers. The entire SVT packake is worse than a single BAR by a large margin.

Therefore I believe their impact to entirely minimal.

Instead of 'oh but one bloke said so', how about you explain to me why you believe this isn't an accurate assessment?

In what circumstances and when used on what squad is the SVT package 'broken'?

According to your own numbers:

...
So with a lot of rounding off, one Bar is an upgrade of 3dps at long and 9.5dps point blank
...
So three SVTs is an upgrade of about 3dps at long, and 4.5dps point blank.
Seems to check out?

The SVT is equal to BAR long range although it cost less has no tech cost, does not drop and can be used by any squad. (thanks you for proving Katitof's misleading claims "of less than half" to be false)

DPS at 0 range is not even that important because conscript can handle themselves close range. If you check the steam you will see a SVT conscripts beating a 5 men As. grenadier that has sprinted even thou the conscripts is fighting another squad.

In the end of the you comparison is based in a flaw comparison of 280 unit with a 240 unit, belonging to another faction.
Now do the same comparison between 3 PPsh and Bar and you will come to same conclusion.
"The entire PPSh packake is worse than a single BAR by a large margin." because it has much less far DPS in this case.
And we all know PPsh is actually a great upgrade.

If you want to check something you have to check the DPS of conscript squad with SVT and without the SVT and see % of how much better it performs.

In the end of they if in your opinion the SVT upgrade is bad you should agreed that it should be replaced with something more useful.

The SVT is equal to BAR long range although it cost less has no tech cost, does not drop and can be used by any squad.

Name ONE -RELEVANT- to the current meta allied infantry, for which SVT is an upgrade over what they have as stock or can get as stock upgrade except cons and CEs.

According to your own numbers:
The SVT is equal to BAR long range although it cost less has no tech cost, does not drop and can be used by any squad. (thanks you for proving Katitof's misleading claims "of less than half" to be false)

DPS at 0 range is not even that important because conscript can handle themselves close range. If you check the steam you will see a SVT conscripts beating a 5 men As. grenadier that has sprinted even thou the conscripts is fighting another squad.

My rounding is off, but SVTs are ALMOST as good as a Bar at 35 range.

BARs are better at everything between 0 - 34.

A couple of unlucky fights against assgrens don't mean anything, look at the stats.

In the end of the you comparison is based in a flaw comparison of 280 unit with a 240 unit, belonging to another faction.

Never did that.
Compared a conscript squad picking up a BAR to a conscript squad picking up a SVT package. The comparison is WAY WORSE if you do it on riflemen.

Now do the same comparison between 3 PPsh and Bar and you will come to same conclusion.
"The entire PPSh packake is worse than a single BAR by a large margin." because it has much less far DPS in this case.
And we all know PPsh is actually a great upgrade.

SVT upgrade: +4.5dps near, +2dps max
PPSH: +18dps near, -2dps max

Yeah no that near damage is brutal. Not even similar. Four times the CQC damage is huge.

If you want to check something you have to check the DPS of conscript squad with SVT and without the SVT and see % of how much better it performs.

In the end of they if in your opinion the SVT upgrade is bad you should agreed that it should be replaced with something more useful.

(Still on a phone, still rounding off. The far distances in particular will be somewhat misrepresented)
Cons vanilla: 21dps 0, 6dps max
SVT cons: 25.5dps 0, 8dps max
PPSH cons: 40dps 0, 4dps max.
Cons with a BAR: 30.5dps 0, 9dps max

The SVT is still hugely unimpressive when you stack it out like that.



I believe the SVT package is marginal and should be a non-doc upgrade locked behind soviet T4. I also believe that the grenades should be one upgrade – or a whole lot cheaper.


But as a commander ability? Its just underwhelming. It needs something more to be worth dropping. More MU cost and SOMETHING more. Body armour? Ability cooldowns? Party hats for the infantry to look cool?

My rounding is off, but SVTs are ALMOST as good as a Bar at 35 range.

BARs are better at everything between 0 - 34.

A couple of unlucky fights against assgrens don't mean anything, look at the stats.


Never did that.
Compared a conscript squad picking up a BAR to a conscript squad picking up a SVT package. The comparison is WAY WORSE if you do it on riflemen.


SVT upgrade: +4.5dps near, +2dps max
PPSH: +18dps near, -2dps max

Yeah no that near damage is brutal. Not even similar. Four times the CQC damage is huge.


(Still on a phone, still rounding off. The far distances in particular will be somewhat misrepresented)
Cons vanilla: 21dps 0, 6dps max
SVT cons: 25.5dps 0, 8dps max
PPSH cons: 40dps 0, 4dps max.
Cons with a BAR: 30.5dps 0, 9dps max

The SVT is still hugely unimpressive when you stack it out like that.



I believe the SVT package is marginal and should be a non-doc upgrade locked behind soviet T4. I also believe that the grenades should be one upgrade – or a whole lot cheaper.


But as a commander ability? Its just underwhelming. It needs something more to be worth dropping. More MU cost and SOMETHING more. Body armour? Ability cooldowns? Party hats for the infantry to look cool?

Only conscripts can not be given a BAR but they can be given a SVT and BARs are more expensive than SVT.

If you actually want to compare you have to use more range than simply 0-35.

A riflemen picking a bar gains 2.24 far 6.42 close, so you are wrong it compares worse. A conscripts squad getting an SVT get a better far bonus than riflemen squad getting an SVT, although being cheaper both to built and to upgrade.

Again Conscripts with a BAR are simply irrelevant.

Glad we agree that SVT should be changed with something else.

Only conscripts can not be given a BAR but they can be given a SVT and BARs are more expensive than SVT.

If you actually want to compare you have to use more range than simply 0-35.

A riflemen picking a bar gains 2.24 far 6.42 close, so you are wrong it compares worse. A conscripts squad getting an SVT get a better far bonus than riflemen squad getting an SVT, although being cheaper both to built and to upgrade.

Again Conscripts with a BAR are simply irrelevant.

Glad we agree that SVT should be changed with something else.

By that logic CEs getting SVTs are super OP because they go from jack shit damage to half as good as a penal squad.

But that's not the reality. A proportionally large increase is almost meaningless on conscripts, because conscripts are an awful unit that people have been trying to find a long term buff for since 2013.

My point waa that >Rifles picking up SVTs< compare worse.

SVTs only look good on conacripts because conscripts are garbage.

I want conscripts to get a weapon upgrade. I want the commander to be decent. I would rather rhe svts were non-doctrinal.

However, given that's unlikely, I would much rather the svt package was made better, somehow.

Soviet SVT on Cons and CE is not OP. On top, the weapon upgrade is in a "doctrine" for God sakes. The allied infantry with Bars and Brens are FAR better than Cons with SVT.

If SVTs are not powerful enough they could use Volks MP40 treatment - RA bonus and a crappy grenade instead of molotov bundled in along with SVT

I'd be fine with a small RA bonus on the SVTs. That way even if a good squad picks them up by accident its not a total nerf.