Maybe you could also look at axis abilities that fit to the theme of Urban Assault:
3CP - Infiltration Tactics come to mind, would give US access to grenades to clear houses without the need to tech for it. Sector Assault from OKW's Breakthrough could also be interesting (reworked of course) because of the mix of shells and smoke.
About Soviet Airborne:
An Air Assault Engineer unit is not used by other factions although these units were always part of the first wave. Could be an interesting alternative. Air Assault Guard Engineers could be the only airborne unit with access to flamethrower then.
Man..... What is "air assault guard engineer"?
It seems strange and flimsy
Why "infiltration unit" need flamethrower?
I dont know what is "soviet airborne",
But that idea is not creative and just odd thing
I dont know what is "soviet airborne",
But that idea is not creative and just odd thing
Para units always had special engineer companies. If you look back at the conquest of the belgium fort Eben Emael then you would see that this fortress was captured by german falschirmjägerpioniers. To think that Para are only fulfiling the role of an "infiltration unit" is a bit one dimensional.
I just wanted to show that there are other options than to make a copy and paste soviet para unit.
But its ok if you dont like it.
Para units always had special engineer companies. If you look back at the conquest of the belgium fort Eben Emael then you would see that this fortress was captured by german falschirmjägerpioniers. To think that Para are only fulfiling the role of an "infiltration unit" is a bit one dimensional.
I just wanted to show that there are other options than to make a copy and paste soviet para unit.
But its ok if you dont like it.
Acually i recomend the book of Gilberto Villahermosa "Hitler's paratrooper". History of Rudolf Witzig, a german falschirmjagerpionier. Really interesting.
Back to the topic.
So from what i read Smartie is trying to suggest diffrent form of airborn unit. It would be more focus on "engineering abilities" like demos, possible upgradable flamethrower, sweeper (with ability to hide it like sturmpio has), boobieTraps, maybe even build bunkers, etc., right?
Honestly speaking it would be really, really good idea. Look, Miragefla in his last stream suggested to make a a ralley/reinforce point that looks like a woodencrate. Expect taking entire slot for that, it could be build by those "air assualt guard engineers". Recon fly and medical supply drop could be the abilities of that woodencrate. So commander slot 2 (ralley point) and could be marged into the utility of a slot 1 airborn unit. That allows to give new soviet commander extra content and abilities becouse currently on the one side it sounds really opieOP (3DPs) and other hand quite boring and weak (no real late game ability).
Acually i recomend the book of Gilberto Villahermosa "Hitler's paratrooper". History of Rudolf Witzig, a german falschirmjagerpionier. Really interesting.
Back to the topic.
So from what i read Smartie is trying to suggest diffrent form of airborn unit. It would be more focus on "engineering abilities" like demos, possible upgradable flamethrower, sweeper (with ability to hide it like sturmpio has), boobieTraps etc., right?
Honestly speaking it would be really, really good idea. Look, Miragefla in his last stream suggested to make a a ralley/reinforce point that looks like a woodencrate. Expect taking entire slot for that, it could be build by those "air assualt guard engineers". Recon fly and medical supply drop could be the abilities of that woodencrate. So commander slot 2 (ralley point) and 3 (recon overfly) could be marged into the utility of a slot 1 airborn unit. That allows to give new soviet commander extra content and abilities becouse currently on the one side it sounds really opieOP (3DPs) and other hand quite boring and weak (no real late game ability).
- First: the Soviet Paratroper units have engineering units. They could do everything that the regular infantry engineers did: construction, mining, work with explosives, flamethrowers were also available to paratroopers.
- The second. During the Soviet-Japanese War. Assault-engineering sapper troops (Shock Forces in the game) received parachute training and were used in parachute operations. Parachute training was personnel:
On August 9, at night, one of the formed engineering paratrooper groups seized tunnels near the village of Grodekovo on the border with China, which had strategic importance. These three tunnels subsequently allowed troops to quickly pass through the mountains.
- Third. 1st Separate Guards Brigade of the Miners of the Reserve of the Main Command. sabotage groups were delivered to the rear of the enemy by parachute method. It was intended for mining and destruction of communications and important objects in the rear of the enemy.
On July 3, 1943, the brigade was reformed into the 1st Guards Assault Engineering Brigade.
Para units always had special engineer companies. If you look back at the conquest of the belgium fort Eben Emael then you would see that this fortress was captured by german falschirmjägerpioniers. To think that Para are only fulfiling the role of an "infiltration unit" is a bit one dimensional.
I just wanted to show that there are other options than to make a copy and paste soviet para unit.
But its ok if you dont like it.
coh2 is a game that is far from historical fact
Although Wirbelwind was much more productive, it did not appear in the game.(instead only ostwind appear in coh2)
The U.S. Army Air Force has done a great job, but most of the USF CAS in coh2 is poor(Poor accuracy and low damage rocket make player feel disappointed, and no one uses strafing run)
No common air bombardment skill, rather inferior to luftwaffe
I hoped to include historic aviation support skills in the new USF commander, but strumpanther created a bizarre mix-up boring commander
urban assault? Why does that matter?
he missed the most important thing
anyway back to topic,
For the Soviets who don't have a proper infiltration unit, the Airborne Guard is a not bad idea
But you have to think, "How" to differentiate from existing units
1) 6 man durable mainline infantry = USF airborne
2) a small number but elite infantry for special purpose = UKF commando, Weh stormtrooper
1&2 Mixed = falschirmjäger
3) just OP unit from vague thinking of "elite" = JLI
Don't make it 3)
ex) 3 dp 6 man infantry
want to make engineer airborne? ok but you have to think about what role it would play if it appeared in the game
infiltrate for rear disturbance? how? placing mine or demo in camo? Is it really practical in the game?
want to make engineer airborne? ok but you have to think about what role it would play if it appeared in the game
infiltrate for rear disturbance? how? placing mine or demo in camo? Is it really practical in the game?
I want you to find the right and creative answer
- used google translater
They could do many different things. You could turn them into infiltration sturmpioneers, make them start with Mosins and give them the option to upgrade flamers, ppsh or anything else. Give them reinforced barbed wire, mine similar to teller mines, basic soviet mine, cover removing demo, maybe small sandbags. And give them the sniper model for the lulz.
They could do many different things. You could turn them into infiltration sturmpioneers, make them start with Mosins and give them the option to upgrade flamers, ppsh or anything else. Give them reinforced barbed wire, mine similar to teller mines, basic soviet mine, cover removing demo, maybe small sandbags. And give them the sniper model for the lulz.
Wow, that looks like a unit that can do many things
What about the ability to make stun the tank while in camo?
build mines, do AT, do AI.....sniper model? looks cool
What a wonderful "Captain Soviet Enginner airborne blablabla guard"
Wow, that looks like a unit that can do many things
What about the ability to make stun the tank while in camo?
build mines, do AT, do AI.....sniper model? looks cool
What a wonderful "Captain Soviet Enginner airborne blablabla guard"
I think that one of the main roles of the Paratroopers should be the destruction of howitzers. Each ordinary paratrooper had 400 grams of explosives. Give the Paratroopers a explosives charge like a penal.
I think that one of the main roles of the Paratroopers should be the destruction of howitzers. Each ordinary paratrooper had 400 grams of explosives. Give the Paratroopers a explosives charge like a penal.
not bad idea
i hope USF airborne get some handy explosives charge
Although Wirbelwind was much more productive, it did not appear in the game.(instead only ostwind appear in coh2)
The U.S. Army Air Force has done a great job, but most of the USF CAS in coh2 is poor(Poor accuracy and low damage rocket make player feel disappointed, and no one uses strafing run)
No common air bombardment skill, rather inferior to luftwaffe
I hoped to include historic aviation support skills in the new USF commander, but strumpanther created a bizarre mix-up boring commander
urban assault? Why does that matter?
he missed the most important thing
anyway back to topic,
For the Soviets who don't have a proper infiltration unit, the Airborne Guard is a not bad idea
But you have to think, "How" to differentiate from existing units
1) 6 man durable mainline infantry = USF airborne
2) a small number but elite infantry for special purpose = UKF commando, Weh stormtrooper
1&2 Mixed = falschirmjäger
3) just OP unit from vague thinking of "elite" = JLI
Don't make it 3)
ex) 3 dp 6 man infantry
want to make engineer airborne? ok but you have to think about what role it would play if it appeared in the game
infiltrate for rear disturbance? how? placing mine or demo in camo? Is it really practical in the game?
I want you to find the right and creative answer
- used google translater
there is diffirence in inspiring new unit form historical roots and in trying to make game realistic. Ariborne engineers as idea was former
Reasonable. The unit should receive the maximum benefit from its delivery method. For paratrooper-engineers there is no benefit from a parachute - this is only a beautiful method of calling on the map. As I have already said, ordinary paratroopers can get explosives and and be parachuted to destroy howitzers. There is a benefit from the delivery method.
Reasonable. The unit should receive the maximum benefit from its delivery method. For paratrooper-engineers there is no benefit from a parachute - this is only a beautiful method of calling on the map. As I have already said, ordinary paratroopers can get explosives and and be parachuted to destroy howitzers. There is a benefit from the delivery method.
They could be Airborne engineers with a 5 man squad that somewhat mimic Shock troops, give them some armor and give them a long range 2 DP LMG option or a CQB PPSH option. Or can give them an additional third upgrade option such as demolitions with satchels and flamethrowers.
They could be Airborne engineers with a 5 man squad that somewhat mimic Shock troops, give them some armor and give them a long range 2 DP LMG option or a CQB PPSH option. Or can give them an additional third upgrade option such as demolitions with satchels and flamethrowers.
If the paratroopers do not have explosives initially - this is a useless unit, all the benefits of parachuting will be useless. Yes, engineers - paratroopers sound interesting, but they have no real benefits. I would prefer the option with paratroopers:
- 6 people armed paratrooper Mosin carbine / rifle (better accuracy and rate of fire) or SVT-40
- Improvements: either two DP-27 or six PPSh-41 paratroopers (better accuracy and slightly longer range)
- abilities: RG-42 grenade, explosive charge
- 1st level of veteranism options: fearlessness (For the Motherland analog), 37-mm mortar-shovel / 50-mm mortar (paratroopers make a volley from 3-5 shells for ammunition)
This unit is useful as a sabotage because of the explosives: the destruction of howitzers, caches, etc. As well as elite infantry.
If the paratroopers do not have explosives initially - this is a useless unit, all the benefits of parachuting will be useless. Yes, engineers - paratroopers sound interesting, but they have no real benefits. I would prefer the option with paratroopers:
- 6 people armed paratrooper Mosin carbine / rifle (better accuracy and rate of fire) or SVT-40
- Improvements: either two DP-27 or six PPSh-41 paratroopers (better accuracy and slightly longer range)
- abilities: RG-42 grenade, explosive charge
- 1st level of veteranism options: fearlessness (For the Motherland analog), 37-mm mortar-shovel / 50-mm mortar (paratroopers make a volley from 3-5 shells for ammunition)
This unit is useful as a sabotage because of the explosives: the destruction of howitzers, caches, etc. As well as elite infantry.
I can agree satchels or some sort of heavy explosive would work.
Combined some of the ideas of my own and others with Smartie's commander, how does it look? I tried to keep the abilities simple by not adding too much fluff. Small name change because it doesn't really have call-in tanks this way, just stronger / more durable vehicles, so 'elite' seems more fitting than 'strategic'.
Elite Tank Reserve Doctrine (0 CP) Assault Grenadiers
- Combat performance and veterancy remains the same as now.
- Gain the option for a 60 munitions “frontal assault package” once T3 is researched, granting them 1,5 armor and replacing sprint with a smoke grenade.
(0 CP) Panzer II ‘Luchs’ Light Reconnaissance Tank
- Build from T2 building, would have to become a call-in or require sidetech if timing is too early.
- Lacks the cautious movement and suppressive firing of the OKW variant.
- Has 50 sight, gains tank detection ability at vet 1 and 65 sight at vet 3.
(2 CP) Field Support Training
- Panzergrenadier support package (same as infantry doctrine)
- Pioneers gain access to the “heavy repair kit”, slightly improving repair rates and allowing them to gain shared veterancy from vehicles. Mutually exclusive with the flamethrower. Costs 30 munitions.
(5 CP) Elite Armor Equipment
- Available for Stug III, Panzer IV and Panther.
- Costs 30 fuel for Panzer IV and Panther and 20 fuel for Stug III.
- Gives them instant access to the vet 2 armor skirts.
- Replaces armor bonus at vet 2 with panzer tactician at vet 2.
(7 CP) Gr. 40 Tungsten Shells
- Same as OKW HEAT rounds
- Unlocks AP rounds ability for Luchs for 30 munitions, temporarily giving it increased penetration.
I think "Radio" and "Tiger Ace" should stay in every case in the doctrine but as i said before i like the idea of Elite Armor Equipment.
My suggestion would be to merge it with "Extra / Field Support Training" to the new ability "Extra training and equipment". That would free a slot for Assault Grens.
I also like the idea of HEAT rounds, they would make Stugs a lot better against Churchills etc; could replace "Combined arms" then.
BTW: What does the community think about "Combined arms"? Its rarely used in games, can someone explain why?
I think "Radio" and "Tiger Ace" should stay in every case in the doctrine but as i said before i like the idea of Elite Armor Equipment.
My suggestion would be to merge it with "Extra / Field Support Training" to the new ability "Extra training and equipment". That would free a slot for Assault Grens.
I also like the idea of HEAT rounds, they would make Stugs a lot better against Churchills. Could replace "Combined arms" then.
BTW: What does the community think about "Combined arms"? Its rarely used in games, can someone explain why?
- There will probably be a Command Tiger in the new OKW commander, so IMO the Ostheer commander also getting one would be a bit much. If a Command Tiger does get added, assault grenadiers shouldn't be in the doctrine, which is also an option.
- I requested a reconnaissance Luchs, because radio intelligence doesn't really synergize with the other abilities (pushing with superior armor). A Luchs would provide good frontline sight outside of spotting scopes or the flimsy 222. You could even give it T70 recon mode or tank awareness instead of infantry awareness. Another option for this slot would be spy network from the partisan commander or recon overflight, so you can can find flanking routes for your armor.
- Combined Arms overrides some of the vet bonusses of tanks with the bonusses of its own, which means it can actually nerf vetted tanks like the Pershing when used. Don't really play USF myself so can't speak for the other reasons.
- There will probably be a Command Tiger in the new OKW commander, so IMO the Ostheer commander also getting one would be a bit much. If a Command Tiger does get added, assault grenadiers shouldn't be in the doctrine, which is also an option.
Well,i think TigerAce is in dire need of a rework and it fits to the theme of the doctrine. And keep in mind that the Ace doesnt have to get the aura buff. It was just a suggestion. Thereby Wehrmacht and OKW commanders should be designed independently.
HEAT rounds and "Extra Equipment" are abilities that could fit very well.
But lets wait and see in which direction the mod team wants to go.
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
