Blitzkrieg tactics balance issue

AT nade = 100 penetration
Faust = 160 penetration

P4 has 160 front 80 rear
T34 has 115 front 70 rear

So faust causes engine damage 100% of the time to both front and rear of a T34.

AT nade causes engine damage 5/8 to P4 front and 100% to P4 rear.

Faust have 140 penetration just to point out, it is still 100% against T34 though

Well i rly would love to see at nades and fausts like they were in vCoh. If target moves out of the range during the animation that takes place before launching of at nade/faust, it would stop the ability. Im honestly sick on seeing those 100 meter heat seeking fausts and similar curve ball nades... This is an issue especially with the soviets whose armor killing capability with tanks relies completely on flanking and they have no lifesaving abilities like bliz or smoke.
Its pretty frustrating with the germans too, but is not as a big deal(if not facing su 85) since they have no problem penetrating soviet armor and if they are vet 1 they could just bliz their way out(negates the su 85).

To compensate with the change, they might just increase the range of nade/faust? Cuz it worked perfectly in vCoH with fausts and sticky bombs.
Im okay with the critical damage they cause tho.

Sry about all that offtopic, but since people are worried of "allways landing" at nades disabling the engine and trough that a bliz ability as well, it would give german tanks a chance to stay away of those nades and for soviets a chance to stay alive(sice disabled soviet tank is a dead soviet tank if not behind own lines) if they micro their tanks right.

But if this could happen, the ability range of at nade and faust must be increased. Just remove that "guaranteed hit even if target moves out of range or even out of sight" kind of ridiculous thing...

have a nice day everybody

I liked the vcoh "animation must finish" style of AT nade and faust better too.

+ i rly find whole bliz ability kinda curious, since its applied on units that are supposed to rely on range, superior frontal armor, and high gun damage. In another side soviets are supposed to rely on speed, high rate of fire and flanking manovers and what they got? ram... Germans have an ability which negates effiency of any soviet medium tank(dont even get me started with blizing tiger...). I personally would've granted the germans with ability that would suit better with their roles in battlefield. Same thing with soviets(secure mode is ok, but risky and rarely sees usage). I rly find the bliz ability WAY more suitable to soviets(t-34/76 and 34/85 NOT heavy tanks like IS2 or KV... its just wrong. just look at the tiger...) than to germans as soviets MUST flank in order to penetrate german armor, but its kinda too late and useless to change that since that would totally wrek the balance with such a drastic change.

I was being sarcastic. I dont believe german armor to op at all in the current meta for 1v1s. The first p4 comes out after t70/t34 spam has started or at the same time as an su85. Plus ZIS and 30 mun mines

^^this.. Soviet mines are out of control. But that's another topic.

I still think blitz should stay on engine damaged (damaged not destroyed) and a slight speed reduction. People are asking for to drastic of a change now. As it is a damaged engine with blitz still has a difficult time gettin away.

I was on the fence on this one, but by and large the current mechanic is just annoying as hell eventually.

I just played a game where I couldn't seem to stop myself from getting constantly naded because I was a little overzealous with the smooshing. As the PzIVs were both vet 2 at that point, I didn't really care, but it just prolonged the game. Smoosh, get naded, repair, rinse, repeat.

However, it might be fairer if light vehicles (M3s, halftracks, T70s, ACs) always got engine damage. If you're using a light and fast vehicle that badly, you should be punished for it with engine damage. Tanks, it's just freakin' annoying, and as all Axis armor is only subpar at killing infantry (Brumm and Ost excepted), it would be nice if we could use tanks the way they're supposed to be used - infantry killing steamrollers! Why do Soviets get to have all the crushing fun?

But yeah, reward quick micro when you stumble on a squad - animation should have to finish. Given that TrueSight makes this happen a lot more frequently than in COH, it's really only fair.

Not sure you understand balance, but being AT grenaded is supposed to be one of the downsides of going for crushes.

The game should also reward quick micro by the player using infantry as well, because infantry ambushing tanks was a big thing. Tanks feared infantry more when there was cover and placed to hide nearby, especially late in the war when both sides had figured out the weaknesses of tanks.

Not sure you understand balance, but being AT grenaded is supposed to be one of the downsides of going for crushes.

The game should also reward quick micro by the player using infantry as well, because infantry ambushing tanks was a big thing. Tanks feared infantry more when there was cover and placed to hide nearby, especially late in the war when both sides had figured out the weaknesses of tanks.

Yes and i think the crit damage they cause is fine. I think it could actually be 100% crit again, but the animation must be finished before vehicle gets out of range. I dont rly see that affecting on balance too much. And its not that much of a mirco to just click the tank and let the heat seeking missile do the rest.
This would revard a player with better micro with both infantry and tanks.

I think ATNade could use a small buff to penetration.

The RNG of the parabolic trajectory possibly hitting rear is all well and fine, sort of, but I think the base penetration value is too low.

It cant be raised by much though, because the interplay of Oorah and ATNade is not to be discounted or ignored. Its a very important factor in the actual application differences between Faust and ATNade.

I think ATNade could use a small buff to penetration.

The RNG of the parabolic trajectory possibly hitting rear is all well and fine, sort of, but I think the base penetration value is too low.

It cant be raised by much though, because the interplay of Oorah and ATNade is not to be discounted or ignored. Its a very important factor in the actual application differences between Faust and ATNade.

Well true maybe not quite 100%

But increased penetration could be compensated with that "animation must finish" at least partially

On a side note:
Recently I lost few games due to Panthers/Tigers blitzing away to safety with only 5% HP left and then coming back repaired a while later together with a new unit despite having their engine damaged.
I sustain my previous opinion: Engine damaged - no blitzkrieg.

If it was only 5% hp left, a speed reduction would have been sufficient to finish it.

So this example does not support a complete Blitz disable. Quite the opposite.

Sorry but 50% speed reduction is not enough in my opinion especially when you got smoke at your disposal.

Seems to me that speed reduction should be enough to finish off 5% vehicles.

Also means he didnt use Blitz or Smoke to enter the engagement.

Not that I see how piggybacking commander-based smoke at addtional muni cost to that equation is really relevant to whether blizt should be reduced speed or disabled on engine dmg either, though.

Blitz and smoke used together honestly should let a tank escape.

Blitz and smoke used together honestly should let a tank escape.

Sure. Guy had damaged engine and felt into my trap, got tank left with 5% HP but still get a way without loosing Panther due to smoke + blitz combo. I immediately went after him with my T34 trying to finish him off but he was gone in a blink of an eye. Probably back in his base.

Yeah that's fair.

It's extremely annoying to manage to damage a Panther's engine via a well-placed mine or an ambushing Conscript squad, only for the damn thing to activate its ''lolno'' button and barrel down towards your Katyushas at light speed anyway. Or bring a P4 to low health, only for it to get vet 1 by being hit, then immediately activate Blitz and almost instantly get the f out of dodge.

Yes, it's an earned vet ability (for what it's worth; a P4 gets it after 8 kills, which is easy to obtain). No, it doesn't mean it should be the get out of jail free card it is now, especially when the vet ability on Soviet tanks is so lame (I have infantry for capping, thanks Relic). If you still got your engine damaged despite your heavy/medium tank suddendly driving faster than a T-70, you fully deserve to lose access to the ability, vet or no.

Speep reduction is sufficient.

Otherwise also vehicles that have like 90% of their hp will also have their Vet disabled by a si ngle ATNade/Faust.

So? I got ram disabled with single AT nade and every speed related ability tbh. I get that Blitz is a Vet ability but this is irrelevant as it's not hard to get Vet1 in this game at all.
I guess we will wait and see what Vet changes in next patch will bring us and then continue discussion.

Speep reduction is sufficient.

Otherwise also vehicles that have like 90% of their hp will also have their Vet disabled by a si ngle ATNade/Faust.

Speed reduction barely makes a dent. It still goes just as fast (maybe even faster) than it would without engine damage, and the ability doesn't last for 2 seconds either.

Sorry man, but considering how hard it can be to cause engine damage even when the other guy is downright reckless with his tanks (which should definitely be punished), I just can't support leaving it as it is. I use it too when I play germans, and it's way too powerful. Panzers are solid enough as they are, they don't need a secret, uncounterable Hyperspace button on top of that. I don't care that it's a vet ability, everything in this game should be counterable by good play from your opponent. There is no proper counter to Blitzkrieg, you just let out a sigh as the Formula 1 Panther magically ignores those two mines it drove on yet again.