Ostheer MG/Early

Don't see how anyone can argue that the mg42 should be 260mp while the .50 cal is 280 and the maxim is 260. The mg42 performance shouldn't be nerfed, but it's price is just nonsense.

Don't see how anyone can argue that the mg42 should be 260mp while the .50 cal is 280 and the maxim is 260. The mg42 performance shouldn't be nerfed, but it's price is just nonsense.

Each factions unit cost is dependent of what the faction can achieve. Also each faction has powerspikes to keep clashes a back and forth fight. If you consider that OST has no CQC units until T2, Mg42 is the only way to stop rushing in units.
If you ignore, timestamps, relative faction escalation and resource allocation, oportunity costs and overall endgame, and compare plain simple stats vs cost, you wont understand why any unit of the game costs what it costs.
You dont compare blindly between factions end even less on units that are not meant to fight eachothers

Pios are actually a threat in the early stages of the game capable of threatening weapon crews. They arnt panzergrens but they arnt to be ignored either.

Again, the mg42 is fine. It does its job perfectly. It's the other mgs that are lacking.
The vickers seems to kill a model too fast resulting in having to reaim and loses Supression, this is bad because of the flame nade that will force retreat 100% of the time, 110% if they have stgs, similariliy the maxim is ineffective unless you have a pair, which is bad balance and same as the Vicky it can't suppress enough to stop the flame nade, followed by death loop.... M2 feels inconsistent, idky though sometimes it suppresses wicked fast, other times it doesn't.

You dont compare blindly between factions end even less on units that are not meant to fight eachothers

No one is blindly comparing anything, and you don't need to be a CQC squad to force off an MG. If rear echelon flank an MG42 it needs to retreat...

What's being compared are units that have the same job. Suppress infantry before they advance any further. The one that is the best at this is cheaper than ones that aren't as good and have costs just to unlock them.

Yes of course armies are different. And? Tell me why it would not be okay for the mg42 to cost 280mp.

No one is blindly comparing anything, and you don't need to be a CQC squad to force off an MG. If rear echelon flank an MG42 it needs to retreat...

What's being compared are units that have the same job. Suppress infantry before they advance any further. The one that is the best at this is cheaper than ones that aren't as good and have costs just to unlock them.

Yes of course armies are different. And? Tell me why it would not be okay for the mg42 to cost 280mp.

Because you have to also consider the timing of units

Wow a lot of people here fail to realize that the mg42 is best or on par with vickers is because grens are less than cost efficient. In fact it may be argued that grens are the worst mainline since cons don't face double upgraded inf. And the fact that they have penals at 1 min mark if they choose. Riflemen have twice the dps of grens at point blank, yet cost only 17% more. I know not every engagement is at point blank but riflemen easily beat grens at almost all ranges. Even at absolute max range, riflemen can beat grens half the time.

Hence mg42 is underpriced because grens are overpriced.

Wow a lot of people here fail to realize that the mg42 is best or on par with vickers is because grens are less than cost efficient. In fact it may be argued that grens are the most mainline since cons don't face double upgraded inf. And the fact that they have penals at 1 min mark if they choose. Riflemen have twice the dps of grens at point blank, yet cost only 17% more. I know not every engagement is at point blank but riflemen easily beat grens at almost all ranges. Even at absolute max range, riflemen can beat grens half the time.

Hence mg42 is underpriced because grens are overpriced.

What on earth are you talking about. Grens are one of the most reliable mainline infantry units going.

And if you want to fix grens, sure, fix grens (they don't need it). But don't use one unit as a justification for another being underpriced. That's just terrible design all around.

Hell. By your logic the Maxim should be AMAZING because conscripts are trash. Better than the Mg42, even.

What on earth are you talking about. Grens are one of the most reliable mainline infantry units going.

And if you want to fix grens, sure, fix grens (they don't need it). But don't use one unit as a justification for another being underpriced. That's just terrible design all around.

Hell. By your logic the Maxim should be AMAZING because conscripts are trash. Better than the Mg42, even.

U didn't read my damn post. Cons don't face double upgraded inf. They have the least firepower in a vacuum. But coh2 isn't played in a vacuum. The chance of anybody tampering with mainlines either to buff or nerf them is extremely unlikely, so I doubt grens will be buffed. Hence the mg42 shouldn't be touched in its current form. Grens are the most reliable mainlines? Then wtf are volks? 5man squad for 10mp more, after vet 1, it gets better RA than grens making it COMPLETELY superior to grens. 0.9 RA squad vs 0.91 4man squad.

U didn't read my damn post. Cons don't face double upgraded inf. They have the least firepower in a vacuum. But coh2 isn't played in a vacuum. The chance of anybody tampering with mainlines either to buff or nerf them is extremely unlikely, so I doubt grens will be buffed. Hence the mg42 shouldn't be touched in its current form. Grens are the most reliable mainlines? Then wtf are volks? 5man squad for 10mp more, after vet 1, it gets better RA than grens making it COMPLETELY superior to grens. 0.9 RA squad vs 0.91 4man squad.

Volks don't get better RA then grens.
Grens have 0.91 RA out of the gate as well.
Later vet RA also favors grens.
Most of DPS focused on 1 model which focuses on opposing models is superior then 2 lower dps weapons focusing on different targets, because you will not be dropping models as reliably and opponent will have higher chance to lose just health instead of models, so no, dual weapons aren't really superior in the way you think you are.

Also, factions able to do it, you remember how you REEEEEE'd about ost being muni heavy faction?
Well guess what, these factions you complain about are even more muni heavy.

And while there is nothing wrong with hmg42, there is also nothing wrong with grens and their performance against much more expensive squads who have invested twice the ammo on their upgrades AND more menpower AND some fuel as well, so unless you are just a-move gren spamming blobber(which you are, lets be honest here), any issues with grens vs other infantries come from L2P.

Do you want a link to strategy section so proper people can help you on your build orders and micro?

Because you have to also consider the timing of units

Mg42 can hit the field faster than 3/4 of the other stock mgs. So again, what's wrong with having it cost 280 mp? I don't see how that can't be worth buying

Volks don't get better RA then grens.
Grens have 0.91 RA out of the gate as well.
Later vet RA also favors grens.
Most of DPS focused on 1 model which focuses on opposing models is superior then 2 lower dps weapons focusing on different targets, because you will not be dropping models as reliably and opponent will have higher chance to lose just health instead of models, so no, dual weapons aren't really superior in the way you think you are.

Also, factions able to do it, you remember how you REEEEEE'd about ost being muni heavy faction?
Well guess what, these factions you complain about are even more muni heavy.

And while there is nothing wrong with hmg42, there is also nothing wrong with grens and their performance against much more expensive squads who have invested twice the ammo on their upgrades AND more menpower AND some fuel as well, so unless you are just a-move gren spamming blobber(which you are, lets be honest here), any issues with grens vs other infantries come from L2P.

Do you want a link to strategy section so proper people can help you on your build orders and micro?

Um, I doubt you've even seen a single one of my games. I'm probably one of the ost players that absolutely hate using grens. I either get Ostruppen or a pure mg pio build. I'm the last player that would a-move a gren blob. You obviously don't know a damn thing about me.

Ost is more muni heavy than SU and OKW. Grens need their upgrade the most since without them, they are on par with (what u like to call) "trash tier" cons. Stg volks and bar riflemen are simply to further enhance their dps. Lmg grens are usually bought so they don't fall too far behind enemy mainlines. Also, Ost has no bulletproof lights and relies on mines the most to stop light vehicles. Like u said, grens have better RA than volks only after the grens hit vet 3. Otherwise if both are around vet 1, volks completely overshadow grens. The best in class dps of the lmg42 has its drawbacks. No shooting on the move, poor dps in close range unlike the volk stgs which get better dps the closer they are which is far better for defending themselves against charging rifles/penals.

I didn't complain about the gren or the mg42. I said both of their current performance is easily justified. Nor do I REEEEEEE about everything. It seems anybody who you disagree with is on your REEEEEE list.

...
What's being compared are units that have the same job. Suppress infantry before they advance any further. The one that is the best at this is cheaper than ones that aren't as good and have costs just to unlock them.

Yes of course armies are different. And? Tell me why it would not be okay for the mg42 to cost 280mp.

Since gren do not cost the same as cons, neither riflemen nor inf squads. Since game balance is about assimetry and also by far because MG42 are the iconic unit of OST.
Why would cons cost 200? Why dont they cost the same as a gren squad or volks squad, because they are the iconic squad of SU. Im not even mentioning penals.
Its actual cost is great, it is performing fine, better than any other Mg, as it should, since its design is for it to be the BEST mg available. Vickers are snipers mg and everyone is fine with that.

If you really want good suppression for SU,USF,UKF then steal an mg42, its not that hard for any allied faction.

Each factions unit cost is dependent of what the faction can achieve. Also each faction has powerspikes to keep clashes a back and forth fight. If you consider that OST has no CQC units until T2, Mg42 is the only way to stop rushing in units.
If you ignore, timestamps, relative faction escalation and resource allocation, oportunity costs and overall endgame, and compare plain simple stats vs cost, you wont understand why any unit of the game costs what it costs.
You dont compare blindly between factions end even less on units that are not meant to fight eachothers

Meanwhile brits are off crying in a corner with no indirect counters and no nondoc assault/cqc infantry but ok.

I seriously think mg42 is fine though.

U didn't read my damn post. Cons don't face double upgraded inf. They have the least firepower in a vacuum...

Volks don't get better RA then grens.
Grens have 0.91 RA out of the gate as well.
Later vet RA also favors grens.
Most of DPS focused on 1 model which focuses on opposing models is superior then 2 lower dps weapons focusing on different targets, because you will not be dropping models as reliably and opponent will have higher chance to lose just health instead of models, so no, dual weapons aren't really superior in the way you think you are...

To add on a little more context - the days of grens having to face 'double upgraded' squads are a thing of the past, in terms of imbalance.

BARs and Brens have both been nerfed and it is no longer possible to equip a squad with double M1919's.

On top of that, the squads cons face don't need to be threatened with 'double upgrades' because almost every combat squad in the game starts off condierably better at combat than them. Fusiliers, JLI, Obers, Grenadiers and Volks all get a single weapon upgrade (with 1-4 guns included in the package) that throws the balance of what they have to fight substantially more dramatically than a rifle squad with two BARs.

So yeah. You're picking and choosing totally arbitraty goalpoasts and comparisons.

Either the other HMGs need buffs or the MG42 should cost 280, beacse right now it is indisputably the best in the long run. Let us not mention the DshK.

To loop back to an earlier post, I'm in favour of the other Mgs getting some much needed love. See AP round tweaks, gimmick brit vet, maxim being bad.

To add on a little more context - the days of grens having to face 'double upgraded' squads are a thing of the past, in terms of imbalance.

BARs and Brens have both been nerfed and it is no longer possible to equip a squad with double M1919's.

On top of that, the squads cons face don't need to be threatened with 'double upgrades' because almost every combat squad in the game starts off condierably better at combat than them. Fusiliers, JLI, Obers, Grenadiers and Volks all get a single weapon upgrade (with 1-4 guns included in the package) that throws the balance of what they have to fight substantially more dramatically than a rifle squad with two BARs.

So yeah. You're picking and choosing totally arbitraty goalpoasts and comparisons.

Either the other HMGs need buffs or the MG42 should cost 280, beacse right now it is indisputably the best in the long run. Let us not mention the DshK.

To loop back to an earlier post, I'm in favour of the other Mgs getting some much needed love. See AP round tweaks, gimmick brit vet, maxim being bad.

Comparing doctrinal and elite infantry with cons. LOL. And how are volks and grens considerably better at start? Volks are only slightly better and grens are the same. And riflemen with 2 bars will beat any of the squad you've mentioned with their respective weapon upgrades (the only squad to beat double bar riflemen is lmg obers at absolute max range with similar vet), meaning what cons need to deal with is less terrifying than double bar riflemen.

Comparing doctrinal and elite infantry with cons. LOL. And how are volks and grens considerably better at start? Volks are only slightly better and grens are the same. And riflemen with 2 bars will beat any of the squad you've mentioned with their respective weapon upgrades (the only squad to beat double bar riflemen is lmg obers at absolute max range with similar vet), meaning what cons need to deal with is less terrifying than double bar riflemen.

That's not just bias any more, you're just legitimately wrong.

Double bar riflemen are not some sort of all powerful gods. Learn your actual unit values.

If you really want good suppression for SU,USF,UKF then steal an mg42, its not that hard for any allied faction.

Harder than stealing literally any of the allied mgs. Even the 6 man maxim. MGs should not really differ THIS much. And I'm asking for a 20mp increase

The Vickers for example, you say it's okay for it to be the sniper MG. That's pretty dumb in my book because the more models you kill the harder it is to suppress the squad. Like that could not make less sense.

Gotta love how his argument keeps going back to "Double BAR Riflemen!".

Since gren do not cost the same as cons, neither riflemen nor inf squads. Since game balance is about assimetry and also by far because MG42 are the iconic unit of OST.
Why would cons cost 200? Why dont they cost the same as a gren squad or volks squad, because they are the iconic squad of SU. Im not even mentioning penals.
Its actual cost is great, it is performing fine, better than any other Mg, as it should, since its design is for it to be the BEST mg available. Vickers are snipers mg and everyone is fine with that.

If you really want good suppression for SU,USF,UKF then steal an mg42, its not that hard for any allied faction.

FYI, cons cost 240mp. Not sure where you got 200mp from.

That's not just bias any more, you're just legitimately wrong.

Double bar riflemen are not some sort of all powerful gods. Learn your actual unit values.

Double bar rifles do outperform the mentioned units even with upgrades just as he said. -again with exception of lmg obers at long range only.