Undocumented changes to MG42?

According to the patch notes of the hotfix, supression of the MG42 got a slight buff.

So first game I approach this MG, horrays it as usual and am stopped short of passing it. Seems like that the change might be working, buttt...5 men get killed before I can retreat. Just as fast as you can say: 1-2-3-4-5.

Random? Or was more than supression changed?

Did anyone else see something like that?

Off to try again...

Sounds like a bug, replay, or something else happened that you didn't see.

Did you save out the replay?

nope, no other stats have changed. i just checked the files

Updates September 26th, 2013
Balance

Maxim

- Suppression from 0.02 to 0.0175

MG42

- Suppressed suppression multiplier from 1 to 0.9
- Suppression from 0.0085 to 0.009

What do those changes do to each unit?

Maxim suppresses less, how is that in practice, does it effect regular units or is it made especially for mg battels?

MG42 gets suppressed less and gives more suppression?

It means that MG got this slight suppression buff it needed (so now it actually suppress stuff) while Maxim is still a viable unit.
I'd say good changes. We can leave HMG now and move on.

It means that MG got this slight suppression buff it needed (so now it actually suppress stuff) while Maxim is still a viable unit.
I'd say good changes. We can leave HMG now and move on.

I agree. Just played a few games and no more solo conscripts squads going rambo into my MGs head-on and molotov trolling.

Good work to Relic as well for finally getting rid of the stupid suppression bulletin, meaning now the MG can actually be balanced.

The MG42 should not be a stand-alone front line unit that doesn't need support.

I think that is the crucial point here. And I think it's a bit early to evaluate if that has been achieved.

What do those changes do to each unit?

Maxim suppresses less, how is that in practice, does it effect regular units or is it made especially for mg battels?

MG42 gets suppressed less and gives more suppression?

- Suppressed suppression multiplier from 1 to 0.9
This is the amount of surpression a mg applies to a already surpressed unit. If a surpressed unit gets enough additional surpressin it becomes pinned.

Before all the MG patches it was 0,5. Then the Surpression got halfed, but the multiplyer was upped to 1.0 so that you surpress far slower, but pin after the same time.
Now that the Surpression gets buffed a bit this modifier gets nerfed a bit, so that you still pin after the same time.

so what does this mean in practice? one fewer burst required to supress for the MG42?

mg42:
time to suppress ≈ 2.23 seconds near and 4.63 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 2.36 near and 4.90 far


time to pin ≈ 7.18 seconds near and 14.92 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 7.08 near and 14.71 far


maxim:
time to suppress ≈ 1.51 seconds near and 3.05 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 1.32 near and 2.67 far


time to pin ≈ 7.56 seconds near and 15.27 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 6.62 near and 13.36 far


so the mg42 is now slightly faster to suppress, probably not 1 burst though. it actually pins a little slower though.

You get suppressed in one long burst for the MG42, but it depends on how far away the burst started, and how close you are at the moment.

However, after you are suppressed, you still get pinned very quickly from the MG42. Probably less than half of another long burst. But again, depends on range and cover.

Hm... don't want to start a new topic so:
Does anyone know if the 4% firing rate increase of MG42s is worth it? After all it should be an increase of 4% to its DPS and of 4% to its suppression.

Hm... don't want to start a new topic so:
Does anyone know if the 4% firing rate increase of MG42s is worth it? After all it should be an increase of 4% to its DPS and of 4% to its suppression.

its actually a 4.5-4.9% dps increase dependin on range. and heres the suppress and pin times with the bulletin:

mg42 with 4% rate of fire bulletin:
time to suppress ≈ 2.13 seconds near and 4.43 seconds far

time to pin ≈ 6.85 seconds near and 14.28 seconds far

id say this is one of the best mg bulletins there is. ill leave it up to you if you think its worth it.

Thank you for the analysis!
Now I just need to farm it so I can test it... Bulletins are stupid

According to the patch notes of the hotfix, supression of the MG42 got a slight buff.

So first game I approach this MG, horrays it as usual and am stopped short of passing it. Seems like that the change might be working, buttt...5 men get killed before I can retreat. Just as fast as you can say: 1-2-3-4-5.

Random? Or was more than supression changed?

Did anyone else see something like that?

Off to try again...

Were you by chance in negative cover? Point blank and in negative cover (on a road for instance) and cons are shredded by mg-42s.

Anybody tried the new bulletin "10% more experience gained" for the MG42? It´s awesome! The MG42 just shoots so much anyway that the received vet bulletin has an insane effect on MGs and so I had two vet 3 MGs in the last game. Within the 5 minute mark both were vet 1 and I could spam the incendiary ammunition.

However I totally lost track what bulletin is the best. There´s just so much like "more fire", "less cooldown time between shots", "slower reload time", "better accuracy". I don´t know what´s best. - However the vet buff is significant on the 42. Try it!

mg42:
time to suppress ≈ 2.23 seconds near and 4.63 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 2.36 near and 4.90 far

maxim:
time to suppress ≈ 1.51 seconds near and 3.05 seconds far
prepatch ≈ 1.32 near and 2.67 far

Ok, is it just me or are these numbers a little illogical here? Why in God's name does a piece of shit Maxim suppress faster than an MG42 that was invented almost 60 years later? I thought the asymmetric balance between the two was supposed to be higher DPS for Maxim and higher suppression for MG42? The hell happened?

Right now the Maxim is just godlike when garrisoned in buildings as they have the same arc as the MG42, super fast repositioning time between windows, suppress twice as fast, and are impossible to clear out without a flame halftrack (note: lucky rifle nade crits do not count as a reliable method of clearing buildings except for those small sheds that everyone knows not to garrison anyway).

On the other hand, the MG42 takes so long to start firing when garrisoned that a conscript will literally run up to it (without Oorah, I might add), chuck a molotov, and laugh.

With the traverse speed nerf, I actually find using Maxims to be easier since you can pretty much still A-move with them and reposition for an insta suppress if you get caught pointing in the wrong direction. Frankly, they're just so much more versatile that I even prefer to pick them up than to build my own MG42s when playing as Ostheer simply because they suppress faster - ironic, isn't it?

Note that the garrison scenario happens usually because the MG42 is pointed the wrong way when you garrison (like pointing towards the edge of the map, WTF?) and needs to re-setup when an actual enemy comes. Allowing players to pick which direction the MG is facing would probably alleviate some of this issue.

Anybody tried the new bulletin "10% more experience gained" for the MG42? It´s awesome! The MG42 just shoots so much anyway that the received vet bulletin has an insane effect on MGs and so I had two vet 3 MGs in the last game. Within the 5 minute mark both were vet 1 and I could spam the incendiary ammunition.

However I totally lost track what bulletin is the best. There´s just so much like "more fire", "less cooldown time between shots", "slower reload time", "better accuracy". I don´t know what´s best. - However the vet buff is significant on the 42. Try it!

try 10% reload if you like putting mgs in buildings

Right now the Maxim is just godlike when garrisoned in buildings

you should see Maxim garrisoned in FHQ, it is even more god like, wipe squads so easy

I really hate and cannot forgive undocumented changes.

It really REALLY does not take that much effort to issue comprehensive change/patch notes, ESPECIALLY since there are certainly internal lists that specifically inventory them.