OKW vs UKF is completely broken.

OK, I don't usually post things this dramatic, and I'm also posting in replay reviews so that I can L2P, but I honestly think this is the most broken matchup in the game right now.

OKW infantry spam -> rush to P4 is the no-micro-required, guaranteed way to beat UKF every time. Spam Volks and call-in inf, cap points, flame nade and faust everything you see, upgrade your StGs on the field. You can lose 80% of engagements and 2~3 squads and still win just by getting all the resources.

Meanwhile UKF player is frantically microing to position MG, Bren, IS, and sniper. One mistake and it's GG. Even if you win 80% of engagements, suddenly there's a Schwer locking down half the map, UKF has no indirect to target it, and it's GG anyway.

Have been trying to get back into UKF for the last few days but I have experienced this nonstop. Every Wehr matchup I win easily, every single OKW matchup I lose, even in the 50% of games where I completely outplay the opponent and get several wipes.

JLI are making things worse, but they aren't even the real problem (there are plenty other OKW call-in infantry options). The problem is that OKW gets more infantry, faster than anyone else. And anyone who isn't a completely new player can just run them around the map, cap everything, spam flame nades to beat every garrison or defensive position, spam sandbags to effortlessly defend every point they take, spam fausts to beat any light vehicle. Once OKW has map control, it's an automatic economic victory anyway. This is way worse than USF Riflespam ever was.

Yes, there are very good counters in Vickers, Bren Carrier, AEC, and Sniper. However, any map with a lot of sight blockers strongly negates all of these counters, and there are already enough OKW squads running around that there will always be another you can send in from the side or behind your opponent.

I play all factions but I've stopped playing OKW now, it's just boring to rely on infantry / territory spam, and I'm quitting UKF until this shit gets fixed.

I've been making this argument that Volks need toning down for something like a year now, I have no idea how they have not only been untouched despite the ongoing discussion, but JLI has been added into this ridiculous mix. Seriously, just change one small thing, be it sandbags, flame nade, StG, faust, MP cost, vet, whatever. OKW early infantry spam is ruining the game right now.

I wouldnt say its as huge as you're saying especially since maps without enough huge sight lines are very rare, but of course, with some of the points I gotta agree with

The insane amount of OKW infantry presence at the start is a notorious problem. (I guess its made worst by them having the most expensive (and in the first minutes most effective) starting unit while also having some of the highest starting manpower)

However, Id say that UKF can actually handle this way better than their USF comrades, as Vickers, even with that terrible suppression kinda limits opponents manouvering options and UC is a pretty good support and combined with a very, very cautiously used IS, they can hold the ground well.
(But as you said, it takes a lot more micro, while they can be very effective with just mindlessly rushing head on)

If anything, OKW usually gets cited as being weak to UKF, even before the snares patch.

The reason for that is UKF can beat them at their own game.

I go for IS » UC » IS » IS » Grenades » Bolster » T1 » RE » AEC, switching the order around depending on available resources.

Five man Infantry Sections are pretty strong against Volksgrenadiers, and with four of them you can easily keep up with map control. The UC will swing early engagements in your favour and can hunt down the Kubelwagen.

Grenades serve as your team weapon counter, garrison clearer and deters Volks and Sturmpios from getting too close. Just remember to cancel them if the squad moves.

If anything, OKW usually gets cited as being weak to UKF, even before the snares patch.
.

Considering OKW had something like a 70% win rate Vs ukf in the last couple of tournaments I don't think anyone really claimed that. This was the reasoning for adding the snares for "free", as ukf was even abandoned by pro players such as Hans. Also the reasoning for the USF redesign as they too struggled against OKW without Pershing doctrine.

Also the only grenades that can clear buildings are the Molotov or OKW flame nade. With anything else you can just teleport in and out and laugh. So not really a building clearer.

Just spam valentines and try to wipe all his squads into surrender. Might work, best meta btw.

Considering OKW had something like a 70% win rate Vs ukf in the last couple of tournaments I don't think anyone really claimed that.

Well, the Brits are in the odd situation where they are (were) not very good in 1v1s (31% WR in GCS2) but they are very good in team games (58% WR in AC). And I suppose they've had a significant boost since GCS2 with the snare added to the Royal Engineers.

can we stop making 10 thread about the same thing without any suggestion or showing the problem

OKW still has bullshi t at gun that dies by coughing on it. also now you have snares. Just Use cover and fight JLI with vehicle.

Thanks for feedback.

can we stop making 10 thread about the same thing without any suggestion or showing the problem

I don't see any other threads on this? As for suggestions:

just change one small thing, be it sandbags, flame nade, StG, faust, MP cost, vet, whatever

I'll admit I was a bit salty when I wrote this, but I've been saying this for a long time. Volks are too multi-purpose, arrive too fast, StG is too strong - just leads to spammy games where the initial engagements are pointless and it becomes a territory collection game.

So how about nerf or remove something from that list (e.g. some tiny adjustments to flame nade fuse, build cost, build time), then buff Raketen's aim so it's actually useful at stealth attacks, and against light vehicles...?

This thread can be closed. What is the point of the whole thread? Op clueless on how to use Brits? JLI op? For the 100th WE GET IT.

What people don't get is that USF has cav riflemen that are basically rangers without the RA but come 2cp faster hence giving them vet earlier in the game to compensate. They brutalize agrens with a cheap upgrade (maybe even without, im not sure) and have a snare unlike spios. I think the dodge with the cav rifle is an op combo and the accuracy of the thompsons should be nerfed when in a vehicle or increase the size of dodge because I've seen a lot of missed rak shots. Ost gets a similar combo but at 3cp when lights are present to challenge the 250

Thanks for feedback.



I don't see any other threads on this? As for suggestions:



I'll admit I was a bit salty when I wrote this, but I've been saying this for a long time. Volks are too multi-purpose, arrive too fast, StG is too strong - just leads to spammy games where the initial engagements are pointless and it becomes a territory collection game.

So how about nerf or remove something from that list (e.g. some tiny adjustments to flame nade fuse, build cost, build time), then buff Raketen's aim so it's actually useful at stealth attacks, and against light vehicles...?

could u tell me how or why is the STG too strong ?

Every Wehr matchup I win easily

You win vs ost easily because of uber sk1ll
You lose vs OKW because its broken balance wise

Mkay

This thread can be closed. What is the point of the whole thread? Op clueless on how to use Brits? JLI op? For the 100th WE GET IT.

Please read the OP before asking what it is about. I literally said exactly that this is not about JLI, and also that I am also discussing in the strategy forum (and have done many times before) to L2P against this strategy. If you read to the bottom of my post you will see my actual suggestions, which I would love to hear your opinion on. (I do apologize for the whiny title however.)

cav riflemen ... [are OP]
a lot of missed rak shots.

1. I agree
2. I agree, already suggested to buff rak aim in this thread

could u tell me how or why is the STG too strong ?

Good question, personally I just don't like the (intentional) decision that was made to make it an all-ranges upgrade. Combined with flame nade it means that Volks can 1v1 any enemy squad, either by (a) closing the distance and flame to force the enemy to move around, or (b) waiting for opponent squads to close the distance, dropping models on the way and still winning up close (+flame +sandbag, usually). Basically they can turn any situation (offense or defense) into a favorable one and have consistent DPS output the whole time.

I would rather have a different upgrade that has even higher DPS, but is focused on either short or long range, so the OKW player has to actually think about positioning rather than just running stuff around from different angles and spamming nades.

You win vs ost easily because of uber sk1ll
You lose vs OKW because its broken balance wise
Mkay

I clearly didn't say that at all, please don't put words into my mouth. The point I was making is that against other players with similar automatch rank to myself, OKW can wreck UKF with very little skill, while OST has a very tough time against UKF, if anything requiring a higher skill than the UKF player to beat.

That's because OST is a challenging, interesting, and fun to play well-rounded army, whereas I am suggesting that OKW needs some slight tuning to balance out the infantry spam tactics.

Good question, personally I just don't like the (intentional) decision that was made to make it an all-ranges upgrade. Combined with flame nade it means that Volks can 1v1 any enemy squad, either by (a) closing the distance and flame to force the enemy to move around, or (b) waiting for opponent squads to close the distance, dropping models on the way and still winning up close (+flame +sandbag, usually). Basically they can turn any situation (offense or defense) into a favorable one and have consistent DPS output the whole time.

That's very deliberate.

The Volks STG is designed such that, against most infantry, they have a favourable range and an unfavourable range. The Volks win by moving to their favourable range, the enemy wins by moving to their unfavourable range.

If they had strictly long range weapon upgrades like Grenadiers then they'd just flat out lose to superior long range infantry.

Good question, personally I just don't like the (intentional) decision that was made to make it an all-ranges upgrade. Combined with flame nade it means that Volks can 1v1 any enemy squad, either by (a) closing the distance and flame to force the enemy to move around, or (b) waiting for opponent squads to close the distance, dropping models on the way and still winning up close (+flame +sandbag, usually). Basically they can turn any situation (offense or defense) into a favorable one and have consistent DPS output the whole time.

I would rather have a different upgrade that has even higher DPS, but is focused on either short or long range, so the OKW player has to actually think about positioning rather than just running stuff around from different angles and spamming nades.

while i do agree that the all range upgrade is bad and they would be better if they had all mp 40 or a LMG like weapon, STG upgrade is literally a worse bar upgrade, 2 STG deal less damage than bar (yes bar upgrade damage at all range too) and they occupy 2 weapon slot

if stg are op bar would be OPOP

Well, the Brits are in the odd situation where they are (were) not very good in 1v1s (31% WR in GCS2) but they are very good in team games (58% WR in AC). And I suppose they've had a significant boost since GCS2 with the snare added to the Royal Engineers.

Probably because they had all thier factional holes covered (ally supporting with flamers, rocket arty, mortar and snares). That combined with the things they are good at cheesing (Churchill's and good support weapons) make them viable in teamgame.

But any matchup with Brits Vs OKW and they get stomped. Currently with a sea of JLI and Lefh fire.

Commandos. Commandos commandos commandos. They absolutely shred pretty much any infantry in the game if you’re always ambushing and they’re the linchpin of my British strategy. It’s the only reason I’m willing to put up with the brits’ underwhelming armor, the inflexibility, and the lack of basic tools like mobile mortars and the only reason I play them at all. Probably my favorite infantry squad in the game.

OKW still has bullshi t at gun that dies by coughing on it. also now you have snares. Just Use cover and fight JLI with vehicle.

Well guess they’re in luck since UKF tanks’ anti infantry capability is about on par with a hard cough. Centaur excludes obviously.

You can’t use cover against JLIs since they’ll snipe you almost guaranteed anyway (.9 accuracy against heavy cover on the g43) so they might even beat double Bren sections since they can’t close since they’re lmg troops. Jaegers seem to beat them at their own game a lot.

OK, I don't usually post things this dramatic, and I'm also posting in replay reviews so that I can L2P, but I honestly think this is the most broken matchup in the game right now.


Have been trying to get back into UKF for the last few days but I have experienced this nonstop. Every Wehr matchup I win easily, every single OKW matchup I lose, even in the 50% of games where I completely outplay the opponent and get several wipes.

JLI are making things worse, but they aren't even the real problem (there are plenty other OKW call-in infantry options). The problem is that OKW gets more infantry, faster than anyone else. And anyone who isn't a completely new player can just run them around the map, cap everything, spam flame nades to beat every garrison or defensive position, spam sandbags to effortlessly defend every point they take, spam fausts to beat any light vehicle. Once OKW has map control, it's an automatic economic victory anyway. This is way worse than USF Riflespam ever was.

Yes, there are very good counters in Vickers, Bren Carrier, AEC, and Sniper. However, any map with a lot of sight blockers strongly negates all of these counters, and there are already enough OKW squads running around that there will always be another you can send in from the side or behind your opponent.

I play all factions but I've stopped playing OKW now, it's just boring to rely on infantry / territory spam, and I'm quitting UKF until this shit gets fixed.

I've been making this argument that Volks need toning down for something like a year now, I have no idea how they have not only been untouched despite the ongoing discussion, but JLI has been added into this ridiculous mix. Seriously, just change one small thing, be it sandbags, flame nade, StG, faust, MP cost, vet, whatever. OKW early infantry spam is ruining the game right now.

How strange. We have similar ranks for most factions yet I've never once experienced what you mentioned. As Brits OKW is easy food and Wehr is a nightmare. As Brits I constantly struggle vs Wehr, probably 30% win vs Ost and 80% win rate vs OKW. MG42 is difficult to counter because there's no garrison counter, no indirect fire, and you have expensive infantry who can't flank that well. IS stomp Grens with ease early on but rifle nades really punish that one moment of carelessness, and GRW43 is a nightmare for the tommy. Ost LVs often force me to get a much more expensive AEC, which puts me behind in fuel. Ost teching means P4 comes earlier than OKW P4, and tellers are many times scarier than schu mines. Ost sniperplay dictates that you MUST be able to countersnipe effectively.

Not counting JLI, I've always had supreme ease beating similarly ranked OKW players as Brits. IS cap faster, reinforce for cheap, stomp volks at all ranges, and Brits have the best healing in game for even more early game dominance. Stgs turn the tide like crazy, but they arrive mid-game. When I see that I usually either rush Centaur or double upgrade to counter the strengthened Volks. Early Vickers in garrison can be oppressive on many 1v1 maps since OKW has no flamers, and UC is just the nail in the coffin, inflicting serious bleed and forcing him to build an early raketen, which only forces you to be less aggressive and to spend some time repairing.

Late game lack of indirect fire is a problem with the Brit faction, but luckily vs OKW you're not exactly fighting Pak40 and mg42, only their retarded cousins.

In fact the only issue I have with OKW is on maps like Kholodny. Dealing with p4s roaming around the map wiping squads, fearing Panther dives, and watching vetted Obers shredding my infantry are what I struggle with vs OKW. But the game is usually won before we get there. Apart from certain maps in which early sturmpio aggression can be crazy cos of shotblockers, I always win vs similarly ranked OKW playersby snowballing from the get-go. How strange that you're so bad at this matchup.

How strange that you're so bad at this matchup.

Haha, well, that's certainly interesting.

When I play against Wehr, I find that 4 x Tommies to AEC is the most viable strategy (barring some cases where Sappers / Sniper are necessary first).

I still think Volks could use a redesign, I'd love to see a replay from you showing how to outmaneuver Volks (+ JLI / Falls / Pfusils) with UKF, against any player who uses them semi-competently.

Good question, personally I just don't like the (intentional) decision that was made to make it an all-ranges upgrade. Combined with flame nade it means that Volks can 1v1 any enemy squad, either by (a) closing the distance and flame to force the enemy to move around, or (b) waiting for opponent squads to close the distance, dropping models on the way and still winning up close (+flame +sandbag, usually). Basically they can turn any situation (offense or defense) into a favorable one and have consistent DPS output the whole time.

I would rather have a different upgrade that has even higher DPS, but is focused on either short or long range, so the OKW player has to actually think about positioning rather than just running stuff around from different angles and spamming nades.

BARs are an all range upgrade. LMG42s are an all range upgrade. G43s are an all range upgrade. LMG34s are an all range upgrade. IIRC, DP28s, and brens on sappers are an all range upgrade. Thompsons are basically an all range upgrade. Why are all range upgrades bad?

Volks have ranges where they can 1v1 most squads, but they will not holistically 1v1 most squads.