USF vs OST Recon Loiter Cost

Is there a reason why the USF recon loiter on the calliope commander is 80 muni, while the OST is 60 muni? Is the USF supposed to have more munitions or something? There's lots of muni sinks for the USF that are used regularly like weapons, grenades, smoke, mines, penetration rounds on the MG's, AT guns, Jackson's, etc...

Why would the USF loiter just cost more for no reason?

I do play OST but not all the commanders. But the OST commander I do have with loiter is 60 munitions.

Shouldn't they be equal cost? It's the exact same ability.

You know OST is almost completely underpowered when USF players are complaining about an insignificant 20 munis. LOLOLOL The major gives decent non-doc recon as well as non-doc arty and veteran fake arty none of these abilities are given to Ost so give it a break if a certain Ost doc has slightly cheaper recon.

Not only that, look at cost of that shitty single pass p47 strafe in calliope doctrine. Costs 135 muni while the EXACT SAME COPY in ostheer close air support doctrine costs 60 muni...

You know OST is almost completely underpowered when USF players are complaining about an insignificant 20 munis. LOLOLOL The major gives decent non-doc recon as well as non-doc arty and veteran fake arty none of these abilities are given to Ost so give it a break if a certain Ost doc has slightly cheaper recon.

If it was other way around you would be screeching without end.....
Plus, he is completely right, there is zero reason for exact same ability to have a different cost for different factions, USF is much more muni starved then ost ever was on top of that.

If you're asking why is it more expensive, because Relic put it at 80 munitions. The M5 halftrack in that doctrine is also a far bit more expensive than the identical Soviet one.

If you're asking why should it be more expensive, no real reason. The USF one could be 60 MU and it wouldn't make a huge difference. The OST one could be 80 MU and it wouldn't make a huge difference.

Because the game is 5 years old and nobody bothered to consolidate all this stuff. It's all been forgotten.

If it was other way around you would be screeching without end.....
Plus, he is completely right, there is zero reason for exact same ability to have a different cost for different factions, USF is much more muni starved then ost ever was on top of that.

I talk about much more blatant balance issues. You wanna name an overpriced ability? Think railway arty compared to pathfinder arty. Railway have been crap for a long time. But nobody cares.

I talk about much more blatant balance issues. You wanna name an overpriced ability? Think railway arty compared to pathfinder arty. Railway have been crap for a long time. But nobody cares.

Is something blocking you from making a thread about it?

Is something blocking you from making a thread about it?

When was the last time anybody listened? Even when I kept flaming to a minimum, nobody listened.

If it was other way around you would be screeching without end.....
Plus, he is completely right, there is zero reason for exact same ability to have a different cost for different factions, USF is much more muni starved then ost ever was on top of that.

The cost should come down and would have to say USF is a MUNI required and ost is optional but still rly important for scaling

You know OST is almost completely underpowered when USF players are complaining about an insignificant 20 munis. LOLOLOL The major gives decent non-doc recon as well as non-doc arty and veteran fake arty none of these abilities are given to Ost so give it a break if a certain Ost doc has slightly cheaper recon.

To be fair, the Major Recon and Barrage are almost never used. The Major Recon is 50 munitions, and it's an extremely fast fly by. If you blink you miss it. If you need to lay a barrage, you basically have to be looking at where you think you might have to drop it, and you have to drop it as soon as the plane fly past that point or else you miss it. It's a very narrow field of view, and again, very quick so it provides very limited information. The OST doctrine fly by for example moves slower, so you have a lot more time to see what's going on and decide what to do. Not saying it's useless, as it's non-doctrine, but I guess that's why it's not that great for the price as it's non-doctrine. Which is fair. But I wouldn't consider it decent. The loiter for example is a lot more useful as it will give you a ton more time to gather information, lay barrages, and give motors and artillery sight.

The Major barrage on the other hand is pretty poor as well as the range is abysmal. You basically have to risk your major on the front line, and you lose your retreat point for a good chunk of time. (I know I know, OST has no forward retreat point, but I suppose it's asymmetrically balanced by the quick suppressing/pinning MG's and more powerful mortars.)

Realistically both of these abilities are used rarely in specific circumstances or out of desperation. Most of the time they're not even worth the trouble and munitions. Regardless, these abilities are not really a replacement for decent recon or don't really have anything to do what I'm talking about.

All I'm saying is the loiter is the exact same ability on both commanders, and I don't see any asymmetrical balance reason why one should be cheaper or more expensive than the other. I almost exclusively play USF and OST as they are my favorites. I find I can basically use the OST loiter all match which I love, but after playing OST for a while, I feel blind when I switch to USF. And then if I'm using the Calliope commander (which is not a great commander right now) I feel like I'm spending extra munitions for no reason, and on top of that, I general have less munitions as USF. So it's like as OST I can have a constant loiter, and as USF I can use it once in a while. That's what brought this whole subject to my attention.

It's really not that big a deal. I was just asking a question and wonder if there was a reason for it. I guess there is no reason for it.

I see no reason for identical abilities to have different costs. Seems like a very simple way to keep things aligned

The cost should come down and would have to say USF is a MUNI required and ost is optional but still rly important for scaling

Your playercard shows you don't know anything about Ost and you're credibility was already gone after saying that Jackson health and cost increase is a net nerf when everybody and their dog said it was a noticeable buff for the Jackson. You've said the equivalent of saying JLI are perfectly fine. And recently u think s-mines are op?! If you played even a shred of Ost you'd think the opposite might be closer to the truth.

To be fair, the Major Recon and Barrage are almost never used.

This statement couldn't be farther from the truth. Yes maj recon is quick, but long enough for most to have a quick glance at the situation. Axis players frequently use the doctrinal smoke bombs as recon. Those planes give even less time so if u can't be satisfied with maj recon, it's your l2p issue which I do suspect as your playercard is absent and u only have 20 posts on the forums. Competant players use maj recon quite often.

Maj barrage is very useful and is hardly only used out of desperation, yes I've seen rather lazy usf players simply 1v1 an mg position with a major barrage late in the game but a lot other times you can use the arty in a larger assault. If you find a bunch of support weapons while carrying out an assault, just by forcing everything to pack up and move can collapse the entire front line as you can advance your stuff without taking much damage. A veteran major arty has the lethality of Ost light arty barrage which costs around 100 munis. So again, it's a damn good ability u get non-doc.

I actually don't care that much if USF gets cheaper recon. However, the little things that are op with allies are being ignored. If Relic only changes this and ignores the stuff I pointed out with railway and stug TWP and centaur and Sov AA insta killing all planes on the first pass.......

To be fair, the Major Recon and Barrage are almost never used. The Major Recon is 50 munitions, and it's an extremely fast fly by. If you blink you miss it.

If you miss it that is definitely a L2P issue. The recon is perfectly adequate for giving line of site for off map artillery and spotting current enemy positions. Coupled with low munitions cost of 50 plus improvements based on vet, you have a very viable recon.

Major artillery is quite decent for cost as well. At vet 2, you have a barrage that will flatten most ambient structures and has good saturation with the number of shells. Its at its strongest when barraging okw HQs but still can be a very decent area denial tool for only 60 munitions. The major is a very useful officer unit after its abilities got buffed-yes i use major abilities extensively when i play USF including the decoy artillery in both 1v1 and 2v2.

Im ok with that recon cost more than wermaht one but 135 muni for shity off map is joke but who cares anyway about this commander when infantry company is better

Your playercard shows you don't know anything about Ost and you're credibility was already gone after saying that Jackson health and cost increase is a net nerf when everybody and their dog said it was a noticeable buff for the Jackson. You've said the equivalent of saying JLI are perfectly fine. And recently u think s-mines are op?! If you played even a shred of Ost you'd think the opposite might be closer to the truth.

I miss spoke in that post by saying S mines kill light vehicles, but I will note that tellers are rather effective and have little counter-play/follow up required for light vehicles due to their 1 shot mentality.

Jackson at the time of the changes had not had its values adjusted for cost and was simply a cost buff with an increase in health.

Again this circles back to many bias' of people who think that just b/c it costs more means it should be < 3x damage/output in order to compensate for a 20%~30% increase in price.
That being said you are correct I don't play many random axis games but I do play them occasionally.


Either way your character assassination is childish and disregarded as all you said was "lol look at your track record" and provided no counter arguments. Even still by far and large most muni sinks for axis are way more efficient per their cost for most (not all) of their abilities.