The Overwatch Problem

do you need to install some sort of a recording software in order to do so? i am unfamiliar with recording as ive never had any experience on this...

do you need to install some sort of a recording software in order to do so? i am unfamiliar with recording as ive never had any experience on this...

You can just save and share the replay you know.

nvm
https://www.coh2.org/replay/85347/penals-vs-jli-at-range-10

Why do you construct scenarios that don't exist in game play? They prove nothing.

Its the best we can do to show power at specific, replicatable scenarios. You can't take a random battle as evidence as there are other factors in play, for example if the enemy facing the JLI they have even more of an advantage because that unit will be sniped even quicker...

We've all played against them. They are monsters. Even shock troops are unable to beat them if they have to close on them first and having sprint and camo JLI get to dictate the terms of their engagement (for a whooping 250mp)

Then there Is building spawning on top of that....

shocks? nah shocks stomp JLI during the approach... but penals lose even if they close at long range....

That's exactly the problem.
You look the other way when WM/OKW units are overpowered just so you can take a dump on allies.

How are axis op mate? Soviets get m3s very early, so okw are fucked, and whermacht is a late game faction.
I like it how you don't talk about shocks, ass enginners, sniper brit sections, or fucking sim cities. Pathetic.

How are axis op mate? Soviets get m3s very early, so okw are fucked, and whermacht is a late game faction.

this is a l2p issue... double sturms or rakaten openings can stop an M3 opening relatively quickly...

I like it how you don't talk about shocks, ass enginners, sniper brit sections, or fucking sim cities. Pathetic.

shocks are decent but not OP... ass engies are OP and need nerfs.... the brit sniper is complete crap... sim cities are counterable if you have half a brain... pathetic...

JLI? yes... MG-34 + JLI + volk is a very strong combo thats quite difficult to stop... pair with a rakaten and youre pretty much indestructible to anything but a churchill...

obers? not soo much... i only use them as elite infantry on the flanks capping VPs alone... as i prefer to use volks to wade out enemy fire in the frontline....

I wasn't responding to you. Anyone defending JLI right now should just be ignored for being delusional.

Relic please, lock the doctrine out of the game until you fix it. 2v2 its just overwatch over and over and over

I wasn't responding to you. Anyone defending JLI right now should just be ignored for being delusional.

Haha, guess theres two opinions. Yours and the wrong one, right?
That stupid statement makes you seem pretty delusional, senior strategist.

yes my 250mp 45 muni squad with recon infiltration stealth boobytraps sprint self healing and salvage should beat a 300mp dedicated AI squad....

now where are you not biased here again?


also mr "shot blockers" that tactic doesnt work if you have at least one volk with STG per JLI... if volks lose the stg then fine but going into cqc vs okw is a good way to die...

why should your 6model squad, with mini atom bomb and the abilty to get AT upgrade and than have ok AI and AT and a mini-AT-atombomb not lose to a special trained 4model only AI unit??

why should your 6model squad, with mini atom bomb and the abilty to get AT upgrade and than have ok AI and AT and a mini-AT-atombomb not lose to a special trained 4model only AI unit??

because one is a combat infantry which only purpose (if not upgraded) is to kill, while the other is a cheap recon squad for scouting purposes and ambushing. you already have panzerfusiliers, obers and if you want (i personally wouldnt count them as those) fallschirmjägers, that do exactly that job but for way higher mp costs.
250 mp. even if you lose a squad, you just call in another and they vet up pretty quickly. lose a vet 3 penal squad and youre screwed

So far i found some ways to counter Overwatch Doctrine by USF and Soviet standard.

With USF you just bring out White Phosphurus from your Pak Howi or your Mortar Halftrack to burn down those HP, and then either your normal mortar or rifleman to finish the job. For soviet you bring out double shocktroops with smokes to close in and attack. UKF i still couldn't figure out as commandos seems to be a little squishy and falls a little faster even on close unless you willingly spend on grenades to decimate them.

On the main topic though i do agree that the Overwatch doctrine is really powerful when combine 3 devestating option from Goliath and LeiH and the Air Assault. One of these abilities needs to be remove or readjusted on this doctrine or else it'll become the most picked doctrine for OKW.

why should my 300mp dedicated AI squad not lose to a 250mp stealthed infiltrating recon sprinting boobytrapping salvaging and self healing overpowered piece of shit?... because your a wehraboo of course!

because..you know..its a doc unit?? in most cases doc units are better while cheaper than their standart counter part unit.

this is a l2p issue... double sturms or rakaten openings can stop an M3 opening relatively quickly...

Raketen opening
And if he does not build m3, it is GG ?

Not to mention the bad hitrate of raketens.

Its the best we can do to show power at specific, replicatable scenarios. You can't take a random battle as evidence as there are other factors in play, for example if the enemy facing the JLI they have even more of an advantage because that unit will be sniped even quicker...

Putting JLI against Obers is not the 'best thing you can do to show power' when that matchup is completely unrealistic and serves no purpose.

If you want to test their strength, you need to put them in equal tests. I.E. put them in the exact same situation (upgraded, at all levels of vet, at all ranges and in all cover situations) against the exact same enemies (pick one squad like Penals) and test this multiple times.


If you do that, which I did, you'll see that JLI are 'only' at about 80% of combat strength of Obers in pure small arms engagements. And that is when JLI have the First Strike bonus advantage. This does not include the Obers' bundled grenade nor the IR STG44 upgrade that increase their combat power significantly.

I've done small tests with multiple types of engagements and the Obers are clearly better in all types of engagements with any level of veterancy, with only vet5 being anything close to equal.

This is the outcome of these engagements against a Penal squad in comparable cover at medium to long ranges. Note how the Obers barely lost any HP in these engagements (the vet3-5 squads were at 95% hp before they started healing) while most JLI squads took at least one model loss and a significant amount of HP. They took significantly longer to kill all enemy models.

This means that yes, JLI overperform for their cost a bit and that they should become ~280MP and 60MU but they are nowhere close to being "as good as Obers for 250MP". The main problem is JLI blobs, which should be solved by this increased cost and by increasing the cooldown.


All in all I think that people are greatly exaggerating how powerful JLI really are. There is a good number of counters. Overperforming yes. Overpowered no.

because..you know..its a doc unit?? in most cases doc units are better while cheaper than their standart counter part unit.

ok... can guards cost 250mp now? because by your dumb argument guards should cost 250mp

Raketen opening
And if he does not build m3, it is GG ?

Not to mention the bad hitrate of raketens.

you dont build the rak as your first unit... you build it as the fourth or fifth... besides if SOV doesnt get the M3 he will get outblobbed and outmanpowered by OKW as the M3 allows sov to be aggressive during the earlygame...

@sanders take a look at that replay and watch... watch how they slaughter penals at range 10...
also my suggestion was always 340mp 0 muni as opposed to 300mp 60 muni... the sniper is the main source of power for the JLI and are therefore not soo viable until they get the sniper... hence why the sniper should be FREE like storm SMGs but shouldnt come out of the box just like storm SMGs...