Sturmpionier

PLS read my post understand it and quote me only if what you are posting has any relevance with the quoted post.

I did not compare Ro.E. or R.E. with SP. I responded to a claim "builder/repair units do not have great veterancy" and proved to be wrong.

In addition the OP is talking about the veterancy and not the unit.


Yes of coarse it does it increase DPS and HP by 25%.

When it comes to "fighting" vet bonuses Re.E get

+20% accuracy
-23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Increases the squad's size to 5

and that is allot.

Still their stock weapons are crap and can't be compared to Stumpioneers at ANY stage of the game. Even with that +20% accuracy REs can't fight. If you are bothered by that 5th man, then i got a solution for you. Give Stumpioneers a 5th man at vet 3 and a 6th man at vet 5.

And before you say "i'm not talking about balance, i didn't imply that i want to change them", things are simple. This forum is filled with Axis mains, and before any of you in here contradict those words, just see the threads the last few days. "How are JLI op?", "NERF Assault Engineers", "Change the Tiger Ace", "Remove the Tiger Ace resource penalty", "Allied MGs are totally fine and can deal with blobs" (although they can't suppress even a mosquito). Seems a little bit one sided to me.

Nobody said they're underpowered, try reading the question.

Yep but sturmpios have good enough utility as it is and arent exactly in need for veterancy buffs

If people actually read and understand what OP is asking, instead of arguing about semantics and "intentions", the forum would be less toxic.

This, sorry for the lack of the specificity.

I think they scale terribly into late game.

This whole thing could had been avoided if you use the correct words in the first opening post as it derailed what people is thinking.
Your complain is not about the veterancy, but how you FEEL that they are scaling into the mid-late game.

For 300mp unit, they have lower vet requirements for cost, than other units in similar price range.
Vet values should be (if i read the outdated guide and changelog right)
- 50% construction rate (they moved medkits to vet 0 and that was a great buff)
- -30% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy +33% repair rate
- Unlocks the 'Concussive Grenade' Ability, +25% construction rate
- 40% accuracy
- No longer takes extra damage when you repair.

The basics on vet for combat units are: -23% RA, 40% accuracy, 20% cooldown, vet 1 ability and some flavour vet like extended range on abilities, reduced muni cost or faster recharge. Check which boxes SP fulfill.

Some units have extra values or different ones to account for their faction, their scaling and their role as a unit.
For example: Penals high vet bonuses or Royal Engineers lack of accuracy boost. Both have one thing in common. Weapon upgrades. The main thing which the game revolves around during the mid to late game, is how much muni investment you can put into your infantry. Lack of them makes units scale poorly, as a unit which lacks them have a harder time if they don't have enough vet. On the other hand, cheap units which gain access to weapon racks, need to have their offensive boost in check.

Which brings to the main point of this thread: why Sturmpio "fails" during the mid to late game.

- Powerspike/powerboost coming from light vehicle shock units, upgraded infantry or elite infantry.
- Short range units have a harder time, if they don't have tools to close the gap. Smoke, sprint, grenades, something which lets them not get bleed as much on approach.
- If you want to keep using SP offensively at that point in the game, you must constantly use the Concussion grenade. Your vet 2 generally opposes the combat bonuses from vet 2 from other units. You have to hit vet 4 to actually oppose enemy units vet 3.

The only sensible change then would be if it's better having the accuracy boost at vet3 or keep the nade where it is. One nerfs people who actually make use of it and the other is just braindead simple buff on performance overall.


Different kind of mid game buff:

-Let them be able to upgrade to both Schreck and Minesweeper.
-Schreck should be able to have the same function as the sweeper to be hidden.
-Only one can be active at the same time.
-Once both upgrades are bought, you can't no longer swap upgrade with STG. Instead the button will change into a toggle between both Schreck and Sweeper.
-Implement a small munition cost for the change (20-30 muni range) or make it have a long cooldown (2 mins aprox).
A small cost which is in the range of a snare/grenade or a long cooldown to avoid constant swapping between both.

This, sorry for the lack of the specificity.

I think they scale terribly into late game.

Invised posts for excess flame


Wow that devolved quickly. Anyways a lot of sturms dropping off like stones has to do with weapon upgrades. BARs/brens/DP28 boost combat effectivness of sturms opposition so much that they get out gunned massivly if they attempt to close the gap. That coupled with the fact they're just worse pgrens, don't have their DPS shifted to weapon upgrades so they lose larger % of their DPS when models drop etc, makes them just meh unless they can sit around shotblockers. They also have too many roles to fill which makes it hard for them to just camp shot blockers as well.

I think the unit would work better if we made them complete Pgren clones but made their "Pgren StGs" upgrades that they could buy at a similar time Pgrens would come out. That'd help with scaling a bit better since Pgrens have no problem in that department. Or just go the easy route and making their veterancy bonuses final result equal to that of pgrens.

Reducing the vet requirements slightly would be a decent idea. Right now it´s indeed a bit too hard to vet them up compared to other units.

Reducing the vet requirements slightly would be a decent idea. Right now it´s indeed a bit too hard to vet them up compared to other units.

Believe me, its not that hard as long as you remember they are not shock troops and should not be leading any charges.

Believe me, its not that hard as long as you remember they are not shock troops and should not be leading any charges.

That´s non-sense. You can see vet 3 rifles IS penals grens volksgrens etc. every single game. Meanwhile vet3+ SPs are rare. It´s not a conincidence.

Of course part of it is that SPs don´t have that much time to fight once they have to constantly repair along with their sweeping and mine laying duties.

This, sorry for the lack of the specificity.

I think they scale terribly into late game.

They have almost no combat vet so they start losing power once squads get vet. Thats why they feel a lot worse at the 6-7+ minute mark when vet 2 mainlines start coming out.

I think dropping 2 STGs in favor of MP40s and making them cheaper would be a good general change across the board. Allow them an upgrade to 4 STGs and a better target size?

I don't see the issue with them falling off lategame, with how strong they are early, OKW's main weakness is that.

-Let them be able to upgrade to both Schreck and Minesweeper.

I really like this suggestion.