Posts: 3260
Soviets already have IS-2/ISU-152/KV-2 as super heavies last thing they need is another Super heavy.
The idea of continuously buffing units to make them more attractive is counter productive, there is allot of room for these unit if they timing and price is right without being buffed.
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Who said anything about buffing?
Posts: 3260
You, allowing both main gun and flamer is a buff.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Fair. I tend to think of that more as an irritating micro tax, but you're right, it would.
Posts: 3260
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I really don't like inconsistencies in the visual language of the game. I was overjoyed when they gave the Churchill Crocodile's main gun the same damage as a normal Churchill, and I'd fastly prefer to keep the KV-8's durability the same as the KV-1. Having two identical tanks have such wildly different durabilities was a bit jarring.
...
Therefore, if you were trying to make the KV-8 a standard anti-infantry-only flame tank, I'd probably do it by removing its anti-armour gun entirely rather than adjusting its durability. That'd keep it as a highly durable anti-infantry breakthrough unit, but would make even a Puma a hard counter to it.
I'm not sure where that'd leave its cost, although my gut says around 125ish FU.
Posts: 3260
Well achieving both consistency and balance is very difficult. Ostwind and PzIV have the same chassis for instance...Balance should come first consistency second.
Posts: 366
Sturm Tiger could easily be turned into a cheaper less lethal anti emplacement role vehicle and then the KT/ST could be removed.
Competing with a KT with HE munition will always be problematic.
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Forgetting the new panzer commander as well. With the 10% accuracy bonus, sight bonus and buffed artillery, the kt is just a better choice.
Posts: 3053
Let's not compare 1 stat and draw conclusions from there, shall we?
Sturmioneers
- 300MP
- DPM is 64/28,8/3,8 at ranges 3/15/28
- lose 25% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- No default weapon upgrade
- 0,87 target size
- goes up against high close range DPM Riflemen
- have bad combat veterancy at very high requirements
Assault Engineers
- 280MP
- DPM is 67/7/0,8 at ranges 10/18/30
- lose 20% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- default flamethrower upgrade
- 0,9 target size
- goes up against low close range DPM Volksgrenadiers
- have quite good combat veterancy at reasonable requirements
TLDR Assault Engineers are better than Sturmpioneers while being cheaper. Their early game performance should be toned down a bit. They are performing at about 110-120% efficiency for their cost/role. Giving them 1,0 target size at vet0 (0,9 at vet1) and locking flamethrower behind tech should put them closer to 100% efficiency for vanilla performance.
I wonder where people get this idea from that the KT with panzer commander is a good unit. I tested it and it doesn´t help in any significant way. The weaknesses of the KT are scatter, high penetration and range TDs and bad turret rotation. Giving it slightly more sight doesn´t fix that. And the 10% accuracy don´t matter in infantry combat because in order to kill infantry, scatter and AOE are what matters. The arty is decent to deny an area (for example to cap a VP while KT sits behind it) but that´s not enough to make the KT viabe.
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...Also very true, although I think that's mainly because Assault Grenadiers simply haven't been looked at for a very long time and have become very underpowered with all the other units around them being buffed.
Posts: 3053
Imo assault grenadiers are about a proper level for a CP 0 unit for the time frame (maybe a bit more durable).
On the other hand they scale terribly and they should either get a weapon upgrade like 3 ST44 or have very good vet bonuses including lower reinforcement cost or some sort of late AT grenade lock behind BP 2 so that they can remain relevant.
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Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
I agree that assault engineers are pretty handily better than sturms, but if we were to remove the .91 target size and move it to vet1 IMO reinforce cost should go down (maybe 28-29) too. That way they're less overly combat efficient but they also bleed a bit less too.
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Imo assault grenadiers are about a proper level for a CP 0 unit for the time frame (maybe a bit more durable).
On the other hand they scale terribly and they should either get a weapon upgrade like 3 ST44 or have very good vet bonuses including lower reinforcement cost or some sort of late AT grenade lock behind BP 2 so that they can remain relevant.
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I agree that assgrens need better scaling, but remember that as a 0cp unit (talking early game) they have a lot more combat potential than just their mp40s because of grenade assaults and sprint. Assault engineers just have to rely on solely dps and the flamer (which would be locked behind officer probably in the future) so they should be a bit stronger in dps. Assault engineers scale way better in live though, and again I definitely agree that assgrens could use like an stg upgrade or something. Smoke grenades at like vet2 would be nice too if they don't already have them (I never use them cuz they suck so I don't know whether they do or not lol).
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I agree that assault engineers are pretty handily better than sturms, but if we were to remove the .91 target size and move it to vet1 IMO reinforce cost should go down (maybe 28-29) too. That way they're less overly combat efficient but they also bleed a bit less too.
Thats exactly what I was thinking too. Without the .9 RA, theyre not really worth 30 MP per model. Theyre currently better than sturms overall as a squad, but slightly worse than them model per model. If they become even worse than sturms model per model, their reinforce should probably reflect that.
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Posts: 3053
I voted for sturmtiger as UP, but it wasnt easy at all. I find it has more utility now, because of the suppression effect and bigger AOE, also it can reload and move and the new elite armor repair helps a lot to bring it up to frontlines fast enough. I had a few SU-85 1 hit kills and those were partly because SU distracted.
I would suggest a little range buff or a frontal armor buff.
Its meant to be an assault gun, frontal armor would be nice. In the current meta a single allied TD focusing frontaly on sturmtiger can make it retreat, also its still slow and a easy target.
I liked the idea mentioned before of swapping ST with KT.
I dont pretend Sturmtiger to be OP, but its hard to use it effectively if you summarise its weakness and overall enemys strenghts.
Edit:
I also think JLI are on the OP side, mainly of their insertion ability. They become quite useful in the right moment because of that. If they were to be reworked, i would remove their insertion. Just that.
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Posts: 2358
Meh the thing about the sturmtiger is that all it has to do is take its one shot and retreat. That's usually a short enough time that it can handle one TD with their rather low dps and stil take its shot and run away. Of course if you run into his entire army and all his at at the same time you'll have to retreat without taking a shot most likely but same goes for every other tank in the game.
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