move assualt engineer to cp1, ok
then replace okw starting unit from strumpio to volk
+
Posts: 1220
move assualt engineer to cp1, ok
then replace okw starting unit from strumpio to volk
Posts: 810
Let's not compare 1 stat and draw conclusions from there, shall we?
Sturmioneers
- 300MP
- DPM is 64/28,8/3,8 at ranges 3/15/28
- lose 25% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- No default weapon upgrade
- 0,87 target size
- goes up against high close range DPM Riflemen
- have bad combat veterancy at very high requirements
Assault Engineers
- 280MP
- DPM is 67/7/0,8 at ranges 10/18/30
- lose 20% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- default flamethrower upgrade
- 0,9 target size
- goes up against low close range DPM Volksgrenadiers
- have quite good combat veterancy at reasonable requirements
TLDR Assault Engineers are better than Sturmpioneers while being cheaper. Their early game performance should be toned down a bit. They are performing at about 110-120% efficiency for their cost/role. Giving them 1,0 target size at vet0 (0,9 at vet1) and locking flamethrower behind tech should put them closer to 100% efficiency for vanilla performance.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Pathfinders are UP.
Pathfinders
290mp to call-in
Target size 1 (.71 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 2xm1a1+2xM1 scouped, not includ 40% critical.
22.468/17.018/13.806/11.734/10.722/11.158/11.592
M1 scouped is prior to bars, meaning that they pick M1 scoped rather than BARs when losing models. In fact, it's a good way to waste munis to arm they with double BARs.
JLI
250mp to call-in, can be deploy from buildings
Target size .8 (.57 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 3xkar98+1xG43 scouped, not includ 75% critical and ambush bouns.
17.607/15.634/14.108/12.874/11.866/10.623/9.383
+50% accruacy ambush bouns for 5 sec
G43 scouped have .9 accuracy against cover and garrison
...
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Let's not compare 1 stat and draw conclusions from there, shall we?
Sturmioneers
- 300MP
- DPM is 64/28,8/3,8 at ranges 3/15/28
- lose 25% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- No default weapon upgrade
- 0,87 target size
- goes up against high close range DPM Riflemen
- have bad combat veterancy at very high requirements
Assault Engineers
- 280MP
- DPM is 67/7/0,8 at ranges 10/18/30
- lose 20% of their DPM if one model drops on approach
- default flamethrower upgrade
- 0,9 target size
- goes up against low close range DPM Volksgrenadiers
- have quite good combat veterancy at reasonable requirements
TLDR Assault Engineers are better than Sturmpioneers while being cheaper. Their early game performance should be toned down a bit. They are performing at about 110-120% efficiency for their cost/role. Giving them 1,0 target size at vet0 (0,9 at vet1) and locking flamethrower behind tech should put them closer to 100% efficiency for vanilla performance.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
STRUMPIO IS FREE STARTING UNIT
AND ASSULT ENGINEERS IS NOT FREE COMMANDER ONLY UNIT
IF NERF TARGET SIZE, THEY ARE JUST TRASH
Even better compare assault engineers with assault grenadiers when both are doctrinal, come at CP 0 and cost the same, while AE come with tonne of utility.
Posts: 130
Finally claiming a unit is UP because it compares bad to an OP units is flawed to begin with.
Posts: 810
You can type in caps all you want, it doesn't make your argument any less bad.
1,0 target size would simply mean they would have more trouble charging straight into Grens/Volks and winning. It would require them to use sight blockers to close in or set up ambushes, just like Sturmpioneers do because of their lower squad size.
But I'm gonna end this conversation here as you are clearly unable to have a neutral discussion about the unit.
Also very true, although I think that's mainly because Assault Grenadiers simply haven't been looked at for a very long time and have become very underpowered with all the other units around them being buffed.
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36
Pathfinders are UP.
Pathfinders
290mp to call-in
Target size 1 (.71 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 2xm1a1+2xM1 scouped, not includ 40% critical.
22.468/17.018/13.806/11.734/10.722/11.158/11.592
M1 scouped is prior to bars, meaning that they pick M1 scoped rather than BARs when losing models. In fact, it's a good way to waste munis to arm they with double BARs.
JLI
250mp to call-in, can be deploy from buildings
Target size .8 (.57 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 3xkar98+1xG43 scouped, not includ 75% critical and ambush bouns.
17.607/15.634/14.108/12.874/11.866/10.623/9.383
+50% accruacy ambush bouns for 5 sec
G43 scouped have .9 accuracy against cover and garrison
Volks
250mp to build
Target size 1(.77 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 5xkar98
20.035/17.3/15.19/13.51/12.14/10.395/9.035
Grens
240mp to build
Target size .9(,70 at vet 3)
dmg at range 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 with 4xkar98
20.296/17.496/15.294/13.488/12.004/10.392/9.052
Coclusion:
As a long-range combat units, pathfinders deal even less dmg than Grens in 10~25, with higher target size, and much costy.
Idea:
Giving pathfinders "mark inf" ability the same as storm officers to make them a long-range support units and different from JLI.
Pathfinders
270mp to call-in
getting acess to "mark inf" after any officer unlocked.
M1D have .75 accuracy against cover and garrison.
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36
I was debating with my vote for KV8. Maybe it should get a small lethality nerf to give the player a bit more time to react. The 251 flamer was nerfed vs garrisons for the same reason
Posts: 130
Hey,
When I look at your numbers, I can't see that pathfinder are worser than grens. You think they are UP?
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Yeah kv8 is very tricky.
In teamgames its brutal. You kill every pak / raketen atm
A) nerf the damage of the fire
or
B) reverse the rangebuff
Posts: 366
I mean they are slightly UP by price. 290mp is a little bit high.
40% critical only save 1 more shot to kill a model.
And 270mp is referred to 290 for JLI(as JLI could be deployed from buildings and with 0.8RA)
Posts: 3260
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yeah kv8 is very tricky.
In teamgames its brutal. You kill every pak / raketen atm
A) nerf the damage of the fire
or
B) reverse the rangebuff
You could remove the gun toggle on the KV-8, then turn it into a 13 CP call-in like the Churchill Crocodile. They fill similar roles.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Sturmtiger is the weirdest one out of everything to me. Main problem is hitting damaged terrain (maybe a higher arc of fire?) and personally think it could use a bigger AEO suppression, not sure how big it is but the sturm isn't a great option atm, it alright but not worth locking out the kt (if you wanted to get him out).
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