Here is the reference, 221 can not win one-on-one with M3 (which cost 15 fuel) or UC (which cost 0 fuel).
Sorry, I can't test with M3 micro. But according to the video, 221 can not out run M3 while M3 is reversing. So if both players are microing, 221 will lose to M3.
Suggestion to balance:
I think relic should reduce its fuel cost or increase its mg's penetration.
Please support me in official site if you have same feeling with me.
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245523/okw-all-221-is-too-weak-for-its-20-fuel-cost
OKW's 221 is too weak for its 20 fuel cost
22 Dec 2018, 04:28 AM
#1
Posts: 261
开弓没有回头箭。
22 Dec 2018, 05:16 AM
#2
Posts: 1979
thats odd i tested it vs the M3A1 aswell and the 221 came out on top... ill conduct further testing with a sample size of 5 to confirm
22 Dec 2018, 05:34 AM
#3
Posts: 1979
conducted the test in a sample size of 5 instead of the original 3
long range... 221 won 2 times m3a1 3 times
short range 221 won 1 times M3A1 4 times
heres the interesting part...
the M3A1 actually loses to the 221 initially at long range battles... the problem is the m3a1 gains veterancy halfway through the battle while the 221 doesnt... 221 then proceeds to lose vs a vet 1 M3A1...
solution = reduce the exp needed for the 221 to reach vet 1
long range... 221 won 2 times m3a1 3 times
short range 221 won 1 times M3A1 4 times
heres the interesting part...
the M3A1 actually loses to the 221 initially at long range battles... the problem is the m3a1 gains veterancy halfway through the battle while the 221 doesnt... 221 then proceeds to lose vs a vet 1 M3A1...
solution = reduce the exp needed for the 221 to reach vet 1
22 Dec 2018, 05:40 AM
#4
Posts: 1979
also note that the 221 can circle strafe and chase the m3a1 relatively easily as its turreted...
lastly it also stomps out the early aggression of the M3A1 of sov... delaying the game long enough for okw to throw out obers and wipe sov from the face of the earth...
as for UKF i dont know... i barely played the faction since IS were nerfed to near irrelevance...
lastly it also stomps out the early aggression of the M3A1 of sov... delaying the game long enough for okw to throw out obers and wipe sov from the face of the earth...
as for UKF i dont know... i barely played the faction since IS were nerfed to near irrelevance...
22 Dec 2018, 05:53 AM
#5
Posts: 261
conducted the test in a sample size of 5 instead of the original 3
long range... 221 won 2 times m3a1 3 times
short range 221 won 1 times M3A1 4 times
heres the interesting part...
the M3A1 actually loses to the 221 initially at long range battles... the problem is the m3a1 gains veterancy halfway through the battle while the 221 doesnt... 221 then proceeds to lose vs a vet 1 M3A1...
solution = reduce the exp needed for the 221 to reach vet 1
If you did any tests, please post your video here. Because according to my tests, 221 will always lose.
For reference:
开弓没有回头箭。
22 Dec 2018, 05:57 AM
#6
Posts: 1979
ohh and the 221 also gets smoke and healing to compensate for the inability to garrison infantry...
22 Dec 2018, 06:01 AM
#7
Posts: 1979
If you did any tests, please post your video here. Because according to my tests, 221 will always lose.
For reference:
i dont have a youtube account or any streaming capability... try engaging at maximum range and use conscript sandbags as a measuring stick
also your tests are similar to mine... M3A1 gets vet 1 and whacks the 221 as a result... i think veterancy may be the issue here
22 Dec 2018, 06:04 AM
#8
Posts: 261
i dont have a youtube account or any streaming capability... try engaging at maximum range and use conscript sandbags as a measuring stick
also your tests are similar to mine... M3A1 gets vet 1 and whacks the 221 as a result... i think veterancy may be the issue here
I think you are a terrible SOV player because M3A1's ve1 has nothing to do with accuracy or received accuracy. It only unlock its ability.
Please play more games before commenting.
开弓没有回头箭。
22 Dec 2018, 06:18 AM
#9
Posts: 1979
I think you are a terrible SOV player because M3A1's ve1 has nothing to do with accuracy or received accuracy. It only unlock its ability.
Please play more games before commenting.
the loss of COH2 hu has impacted my stat collection... i can neither confirm nor deny this...
if i am mistaken in my assessment then fine... but it doesnt change anything... giving the 221 easier access to vet 1 gives it smoke... it can disengage from bad situations while still providing healing
mind you you are not exempt from mistakes aswell since you stated the M3A1 costs 5 fuel when it costs 15...
also regardless the 221 is turreted and can chase the m3a1 more reliably than the m3a1 can chase the 221.... and is perfect for chasing down retreating squads snipers etc... i reliably use the 221 to kill penal battalions retreating on low HP...
22 Dec 2018, 06:24 AM
#10
Posts: 5279
M3a1 overdrive ability actually reduces the target size by 25% according to the ability guide so it COULD impact the outcome I think. Need someone more in tune with the numbers to tell us if ability even helps against small arms or just projectiles
#stalinwept
22 Dec 2018, 06:33 AM
#11
Posts: 1979
wheres COH2.hu when you need it?
22 Dec 2018, 09:41 AM
#12
Posts: 4474
here download it and use it https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8
the loss of COH2 hu has impacted my stat collection... i can neither confirm nor deny this...
if i am mistaken in my assessment then fine... but it doesnt change anything... giving the 221 easier access to vet 1 gives it smoke... it can disengage from bad situations while still providing healing
mind you you are not exempt from mistakes aswell since you stated the M3A1 costs 5 fuel when it costs 15...
also regardless the 221 is turreted and can chase the m3a1 more reliably than the m3a1 can chase the 221.... and is perfect for chasing down retreating squads snipers etc... i reliably use the 221 to kill penal battalions retreating on low HP...
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
22 Dec 2018, 12:15 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
here download it and use it https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8
Not up to date i think since last patch.
You might as well use this instead which is the same without needing to download and reopening in a browser.
https://coh2db.com/stats/
Also, it doesn't have the stats for vet.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
22 Dec 2018, 12:43 PM
#14
Posts: 4474
if only someone could update the 2 year old vet guide
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
22 Dec 2018, 13:44 PM
#15
Posts: 1979
or better yet resurrect coh2.hu
22 Dec 2018, 14:20 PM
#16
Posts: 261
M3a1 overdrive ability actually reduces the target size by 25% according to the ability guide so it COULD impact the outcome I think. Need someone more in tune with the numbers to tell us if ability even helps against small arms or just projectiles
But neither me nor AI has activate this ability in the videos, so there is nothing to with the ability.
开弓没有回头箭。
22 Dec 2018, 14:33 PM
#17
Posts: 1979
But neither me nor AI has activate this ability in the videos, so there is nothing to with the ability.
we still dont know what vet 1 truly has in store for the M3... none of those stat pages show anything regarding vet changes unlike coh2.hu
22 Dec 2018, 14:49 PM
#18
1 
Posts: 1276
The .50 cal weapon profile is better than the MG42 for starters as far as anti-vehicle.
Another thing to note is that to get an m3 t1 must be built and as such should be considered as part of the cost of the unit.
As such this is a fair match up cost wise. Design wise maybe a 222 upgrade could be a thing but the unit as I understood was supposed to give OKW a way to counter snipers and chase down retreating units.... not combat M3s.
As a side note it does rather well vs WC51 (so long as the player isn't smart enough to use marked target but he has to muni sink for it).
Another thing to note is that to get an m3 t1 must be built and as such should be considered as part of the cost of the unit.
As such this is a fair match up cost wise. Design wise maybe a 222 upgrade could be a thing but the unit as I understood was supposed to give OKW a way to counter snipers and chase down retreating units.... not combat M3s.
As a side note it does rather well vs WC51 (so long as the player isn't smart enough to use marked target but he has to muni sink for it).
22 Dec 2018, 15:41 PM
#19
Posts: 783
The .50 cal weapon profile is better than the MG42 for starters as far as anti-vehicle.
Another thing to note is that to get an m3 t1 must be built and as such should be considered as part of the cost of the unit.
As such this is a fair match up cost wise. Design wise maybe a 222 upgrade could be a thing but the unit as I understood was supposed to give OKW a way to counter snipers and chase down retreating units.... not combat M3s.
As a side note it does rather well vs WC51 (so long as the player isn't smart enough to use marked target but he has to muni sink for it).
221 needs a truck called in so that should be factored into cost as well.
22 Dec 2018, 15:42 PM
#20
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
we still dont know what vet 1 truly has in store for the M3... none of those stat pages show anything regarding vet changes unlike coh2.hu
You just get overdrive with vet1.
CoH2.hu would also only show you something along the lines of:
experience_value=400
Apply_modifier_action:
modifiers
usage_type: multiplier add
value: 0.2
something something: veterancy_experience modifier.
This just means that you are giving more experience to the enemies with every level of vet.
So nope, it doesn't matter for the discussion purposes.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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