Increase light jaegars price

snipers are 360mp 1 man squads with 1 ability and arent useless... jagers are 4 man sniper teams with 4 abilities...

A CP 6 costing 340 and having no AT at all is useless.

i just tested it... the new jagers + G43 beat obers without MG34s while only losing one man... your argument is redundant

340 + free G43 upgrade is not only logical but necessary

jager G43 vs obers no upgrade engagement
20m cover vs cover
battle 1
jager lost 1 man all obers dead
battle 2
jager lost 1 man all obers dead
battle 3
jager lost 1 man all obers dead

@addvaluejack please make a video of this with these parameters
engagement at 2 conscript sandbags length obersoldaten and jager both fighting behind cover give jager a G43 and let obers stay stock... you will find that the engagement vs obers will be lopsided in favour of the jagers

Can you pls stop repeatedly comparing Ober and JLI, they are not meant to replace Obers and the units serve different roles.

Your argument hold little water, if assault engineer can beat them at point blank would that mean they should cost less then assault engineers?

The JLI spam needs to fixed but your suggestion are simply wrong.

A CP 6 costing 340 and having no AT at all is useless.

ive already downed that to 2cp to bring them inline with shocks and guards...
sure no AT at all just like shocks snipers and

Can you pls stop repeatedly comparing Ober and JLI, they are not meant to replace Obers and the units serve different roles.

Your argument hold little water, if assault engineer can beat them at point blank would that mean they should cost less then assault engineers?

The JLI spam needs to fixed but your suggestion are simply wrong.

unupgraded obers are long range infantry just like jagers are... obers get a similar number of abilities and utility but dont get stealth needs tech and cannot spawn from buildings raping your sniper etc...

mind you jagers beat obers at range 20 and beyond... meaning jagers beat obers at SHORT MEDIUM AND LONG ranges alike and obers only gain the advantage at cqc ranges below range 10...

did a few range 10 engagements
battle 1
jagers lost 2 men obers lost all
battle 2
jagers lost 3 men obers lost all
battle 3
jagers lost 2 men obers lost all

also did a few single tests
shocks vs obers
shocks lost 1 man

shocks vs jagers
shocks lost 2 men

penals vs obers
penals lost all models... obers lost 3...

penals vs jagers
penals lost all models... jagers lost 3(!!!!!!!!!!!)

thats range 10 mind you thats short range... AND JAGERS BEAT PENALS AND OBERS EVEN AT RANGE 10

jagers +G43 are more akin to 340mp squads than 300mp...
if you want the jager to be 300mp or less the penal should be 250mp or less

tldr jagers beat obers at all ranges except close quarters ergo 340mp is viable

another test... just 1 sample size like before..
obers vs assault engies
obers lose all models... assault engies lost 3

jagers vs assault engies
obers lose all models... assault engies lost 4

they only barely lose to assault engies at range 10...

Why on earth are you comparing them to stock Obers lol

Other than it's the only way to save your silly argument of course


Compare fully upgraded JLI to fully upgraded Obers, or compare stock Obers to stock JLI (god knows why you would do that) but don't cherry pick the test parameters to favour your argument.

Upgraded Obers are 340MP with 70MU, and upgraded JLI raw combat power is at about 80% of upgraded Obers performance.
340x0,8=272MP
70x0,8=56MU
Is what JLI are worth according to your comparison.

because jagers outperform both penals and stock obers at all ranges except cqc... did i say that they outperform penals? or should i say it again that they outperform penals at all ranges except below range 10?

...

again your comparisons and suggestion are simply wrong.

Even at at CP 2 as 340 MP /45 munition unit JLI would become obsolete.

The unit should be useful but not spam-able.

again your comparisons and suggestion are simply wrong.

Even at at CP 2 as 340 MP /45 munition unit JLI would become obsolete.

The unit should be useful but not spam-able.

ive already stated make the G-43 a free upgradable like storms ergo JLI become a 340mp 2cp sniper squad... no muni required...

also they beat penals which have semi auto rifles at range 10 (which is short range) soo your argument is moot

they are almost able to beat assault engineers aswell downing them to 1 man before finally dying...

Why on earth are you comparing them to stock Obers lol

Other than it's the only way to save your silly argument of course


Compare fully upgraded JLI to fully upgraded Obers, or compare stock Obers to stock JLI (god knows why you would do that) but don't cherry pick the test parameters to favour your argument.

Upgraded Obers are 340MP with 70MU, and upgraded JLI raw combat power is at about 80% of upgraded Obers performance.
340x0,8=272MP
70x0,8=56MU
Is what JLI are worth according to your comparison.

1. 80% is an arbitrary number you made up... meanwhile my tests concluded that they clobber both obers and penals at all ranges beyond range 10...
and since JLI outperform penals which are a 300 mp squad ergo 340 becomes a decent estimate to their performance...

do empirical tests before posting your feelings dammit...
2. remove the 45 muni cost on the G-43... jagers without them arent too good anyways... make them storm like in that they cannot spawn from behind with a G-43 but can transition to line infantry after their infiltration course...

3. i find it odd that a recon squad is DEFEATING 300MP AND 340MP LINE INFANTRY AT SHORT RANGES

...

Once more repeating the same mantra again and again is not helpful. This is not yoga.

At CP 2 and 340 manpower an AI unit with no AT will still be obsolete.

And once more the unit needs to bring something to the table while not being spam-able.

It should not replace VG or obers but it should work with them. You comparison/analysis are flawed and so are you suggestions.

Once more repeating the same mantra again and again is not helpful. This is not yoga.

only because you refuse to listen

At CP 2 and 340 manpower an AI unit with no AT will still be obsolete.

obers come later than 2cp and cost 340 and have no AT... they dont get stealth dont infiltrate and have less utility than JLI do... still not useless

penals come earlier cost 300 but get shot in the foot to get AT... they are clobbered by jagers at almost all combat ranges aswell... have little utility beyond satcheling objects and did i mention losing to jagers at almost all combat ranges?

And once more the unit needs to bring something to the table while not being spam-able.

It should not replace VG or obers but it should work with them. You comparison/analysis are flawed and so are you suggestions.

long range vision... long range sniper support... infiltration boobytrapping sniper killing stealth and force recon... no other OKW unit can do all of that


look the best no brainer way to fix this is to reduce that 70% crit to 40% and keep the pricing... but since people want to retain 70% crit then nerf the price to 340 to keep it balanced


also making them cost 280 while retaining that ridiculous 70% crit means that they will replace obersoldaten regardless... making them 340 means that they truly become support weapons while not being spammable

only because you refuse to listen

Actually you refuse to listen and you keep repeating the mantra.

Actually you refuse to listen and you keep repeating the mantra.

ok lets just make jagers cost 100mp and give them HK416 + panzerfaust 3s... while were at it we should add Leopard 2A7+ and space lasers to germany... also give them the gotterdammerung spacecraft from iron sky then nerf all allied infantry to cost 500mp >.>


the whole point of the argument was that jagers are better than penal battalions and obers despite being cheaper... but since axis can get better stuff for free... when is the leopard 2A7+ coming?

ok another round of testing

10 range engagement
penals vs jagers
battle 1
penals lost all models jagers lost 1
battle 2
penals lost all models jagers lost 1
battle 3
penals lost all models jagers lost 1

engagement at 5 range
battle 1
penals lost 2 models jagers lost all...
battle 2
penals lost 3 jagers lost all...
battle 3
penals lost all jagers lost 3...

definitely not broken amirite?

At this point you simple make no sense.

No one said that JLI should be buffed and I clearly said that they should be nerfed and their spam ability fixed.

What I have said is that your analysis and suggestions are wrong.

JLI should not replace mainline infantry or Obers.

What one actually can do is lower their DPS at close range giving them a distinctive disadvantage at certain range. Combined with counter spam changes (CP, cool-down) the units will be in much better place.

I do not think that comparing JLI to ober is a false comparison. Both are Anti-Infantry Specialists, elite infantry of 4 men squad size, and utility skills like booby trap. Both have no snare skills, and are long-range combat specialists. Strictly speaking, both are not base-line infantry and are specialized in fire support. The problem is that these fire support units must also be expected to be cost effective. Let's take an extreme example. If the USF's Pathfinders are capable of producing only 50 manpower, Would not this unit cause problems? Pathfinders are very easy to handle with light tanks, with very few utility skills (usually only beacon installations if they are not IR pathfinders). Obviously, however, the price of Pathfinders will also cause another problem if cost effective is ridiculous.
And these conditions are the same for JLI. JLI is not a consuming unit and is not a base-line infantry, but these units must also be mind about cost effective to balanced well.
And now the situation is too restrictive for the allied strategy, and it can be won easily through JLI. This is obviously causing problems.

I would rather suggest a way to convince some axis fanboy of this issue. Temporarily, for a period of about a month, change the USF's Pathfinder ability, demand cp, and price exactly the same as JLI. Maybe the axis fanboys will try to riot on this board in less than a week.

At this point you simple make no sense.

No one said that JLI should be buffed and I clearly said that they should be nerfed and their spam ability fixed.

because you have this ridiculous assertion that JLI should cost 280mp when they EXTERMINATE 300 MP squads outright... if JLI should be 280 then penals should be 250...

What I have said is that your analysis and suggestions are wrong.

JLI should not replace mainline infantry or Obers.

youre right they shouldnt... a 340mp jager squad can still do things obers cant do and obers can do things a 340 jager squad cant do... they arent the same and they dont replace each other... one is a firesupport unit the other is line infantry

What one actually can do is lower their DPS at close range giving them a distinctive disadvantage at certain range. Combined with counter spam changes (CP, cool-down) the units will be in much better place.

im not even sure if this can be done given the current engine... regardless retaining their high damage past 30m might be a good idea... but its price still needs nerfs to higher prices... 300mp is still a minimum

I do not think that comparing JLI to ober is a false comparison. Both are Anti-Infantry Specialists, elite infantry of 4 men squad size, and utility skills like booby trap. Both have no snare skills, and are long-range combat specialists. Strictly speaking, both are not base-line infantry and are specialized in fire support. The problem is that these fire support units must also be expected to be cost effective. Let's take an extreme example. If the USF's Pathfinders are capable of producing only 50 manpower, Would not this unit cause problems? Pathfinders are very easy to handle with light tanks, with very few utility skills (usually only beacon installations if they are not IR pathfinders). Obviously, however, the price of Pathfinders will also cause another problem if cost effective is ridiculous.
And these conditions are the same for JLI. JLI is not a consuming unit and is not a base-line infantry, but these units must also be cost effective to balance well.
And now the situation is too restrictive for the allied strategy, and it can be won easily through JLI. This is obviously causing problems.

I would rather suggest a way to convince some axis fanboy of this issue. Temporarily, for a period of about a month, change the USF's Pathfinder ability, demand cp, and price exactly the same as JLI. Maybe the axis fanboys will try to riot on this board in less than a week.

that gives me an idea... buff the soviet sniper to JLI standards and see how axis riots >.> wehraboo logic = its totally fine when a (postnerf) 280mp squad destroys a 300mp squad...

340 or 280 + 60% crit... those are the only logical conclusions that i have garnered from the testing...

that gives me an idea... buff the soviet sniper to JLI standards and see how axis riots >.> wehraboo logic = its totally fine when a (postnerf) 280mp squad destroys a 300mp squad...

340 or 280 + 60% crit... those are the only logical conclusions that i have garnered from the testing...

The Soviet Sniper has been causing balance problems for quite a long time. It has now been modified to have almost the same stats as Ostheer's sniper.Sniper is always sensitive to balance. It should always be seen that there is no unit to deal with in an early game. Light tanks and light vehicles can be some sort of countermeasures, but in general, pro-players do not let them get in. In most top 100 players' games, the sniper acts like a predator-free unit. This is why Soviet sniper has been changed from 2 men squad size to 1men squad size to enable at least counter sniping.

The problem with JLI is very diverse. This unit has a critical hit of less than 75% health. This is almost as twice high as 40% of Pathfinders. Most infantry players, especially the baseline infantry, have a very frequent turnover of 70%, rather than the maximum, when carrying out their mission; to keep baseline.

1cp is the amount that can be stacked if there is an initial engagement, and in most 1v1 games it is possible to accumulate as much as 4 minutes before the start of the game. It is a very serious issue to have a long-range specialized unit comparable to obersoldaten at this time. Before the USF normally unlocks the Weapon Rack to upgrade the BAR, JLI upgrades the G43 and even takes on the battlefield. This long-range critical hit is also very powerful in confused combat situations where a large number of troops are fighting backwards. They are difficult to get wiped out like a sniper, and can have almost similar abilities. they even have the ability to maintain some base-line on your own. The fact that these units can only be produced with 250 manpower is a serious problem.

And most of the axis players sometimes mention this. Allied forces consist of three factions, not just one faction. In 1v1 games, they can not produce Riflemen, Sniper and Universal Carrier at the same time. Do not try to solve the JLI problem by touching other units.

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You seem determined to continue spamming your opinion about how broken JLI and repeating the same suggestions without actually reading and understanding what other say, I actually have better thing to do, so you can continue on your own if you want.

Merry Christmas and happy new year.

BB

You seem determined to continue spamming your opinion about how broken JLI and repeating the same suggestions without actually reading and understanding what other say, I actually have better thing to do, so you can continue on your own if you want.

Merry Christmas and happy new year.

BB

because you keep on replying with that assertion that 340mp JLI would be unusable... this is bullshit judging by the way they wipe penals off the map...

my entire point is to prove this statement as complete bullshit

At CP 2 and 340 manpower an AI unit with no AT will still be obsolete.

all the evidence i have said all the statements i have made concentrate on trying to prove the bullshit behind saying 340MP 2CP jagers would be obsolete... they most certainly will not because they objectively wipe penals off the map... that is not an opinion rather that is a FACT... they wipe penals off the map period... if it WIPES penals regardless of range... then it should cost MORE than penals... however you seem to lack the comprehension to understand that and maintain a holier than though ignorant position...

maybe you should "read and understand" my statements before claiming bullshit like this...

Best comparison is still JLI and paths. Idk why people keep trying to think up other ones honestly. They’re literally the only two units with the particular role they have.

But I also don’t get why the fact that they don’t have AT makes them “obsolete” if they have a cp requirement. Paratroopers come even later at 3cp and have a worse RA (in exchange for more men and paradrop reinforce and crazy dps to be fair) and have absolutely no AT either. Same with every single other allied elite infantry unit except for guards. Same with stormtroopers if they don’t have schrecks (which knocks off 1/4 of their AI dps).