OKW Sector Assault needs to be fixed ASAP

TBH this new patch has broken me anyway, blobs are more apparent than ever and the game just turns into an arty fest after 10 minutes. Ill see you all in COH3, maybe.

Hopefully not.

If they change it so it doesn't bomb inside base sector and doesn't bomb retreating squads, it's OK imo.

I have a thread about the soviet loiter killing my infantry in base, and 1-shotting full health retreating squads with cannons.

Everyone said its fine. This ability is less deadly than the bombs, its fine.

No way in hell the IL2s are killing anything since their nerf, they used to kill clumped units retreating, but not anymore.

No way in hell the IL2s are killing anything since their nerf, they used to kill clumped units retreating, but not anymore.

You're wrong. Literally happened to me twice yesterday.

Also, The IL-2 can be placed on the edge of base sector, and will kill your units IN BASE.

I have a thread about the soviet loiter killing my infantry in base, and 1-shotting full health retreating squads with cannons.

Everyone said its fine. This ability is less deadly than the bombs, its fine.

You know you're lying.
I know you're lying.
And stats of sturmovik loiter confirm you're lying, because it is not possible for this ability currently on live to do it.
The only thing we don't know is why, or who is your dealer.

You know you're lying.
I know you're lying.
And stats of sturmovik loiter confirm you're lying, because it is not possible for this ability currently on live to do it.
The only thing we don't know is why, or who is your dealer.

Why did I make a thread about it a week or so ago then?

Why did I make a thread about it a week or so ago then?

Oh I don't know, because the ONLY player that is worse at this game and keeps posting on these forums is that one comp stomper who thinks he should be talking about balance.

And we've seen a LOT of exaggerating, bad people.

Regarding your thread, let me guess, lots of words, but no replay to prove them, even though its impossible for the ability to wipe full health squad, unless you let 2 or more passes hit it?

Oh I don't know, because the ONLY player that is worse at this game and keeps posting on these forums is that one comp stomper who thinks he should be talking about balance.

And we've seen a LOT of exaggerating, bad people.

Regarding your thread, let me guess, lots of words, but no replay to prove them, even though its impossible for the ability to wipe full health squad, unless you let 2 or more passes hit it?

I uploaded replays.

I have a thread about the soviet loiter killing my infantry in base, and 1-shotting full health retreating squads with cannons.

Everyone said its fine. This ability is less deadly than the bombs, its fine.

I mean it got nerfed hard for a reason, being that it would shit on units on retreat.


This is literally the same thing except its big bombs that wipe more than just infantry.

Suggesting things which are not feasible to implement doesn't move us forward.
Welp, you keep making bad assumptions (see below).



The problem with Sector assault is that it's the only loiter plane with a bombing run assigned to it (which i can think off at the moment). Issues which i addressed before.
Any offmap which a big enough AoE can and will hit inside enemy base, specially when the base space if too close to a point or the base been really small.

Edit: just tested it, and you can easily hit south spawn on Langreskaya with Air supremacy.


It will get nerfed. The thing is to understand what and why it's happening and how to change it.




Because for all that it matters, the old Air suppremacy was an "artillery" attack. Bombing attack on new Air supremacy doesn't lock down targets, it bombs a predefine space based on map layout.

First of all, I am not the dev of the game, and there is no way for me to make a judgement of what is feasible or not for change. To attack me and accusing me of making assumptions when I am just reporting what I see in the game does not make for a constructive discussion.

I agree that my suggestion for UI changes was not well thought through, because frankly speaking, my intention was only to suggest that the UI needs to match the mechanics at work, which it does not from a player's QOL perspective.
Even if the UI does give the information, it is not given in a way that can easily be deciphered for players because it does not follow the conventions set by how other abilities behave.

This brings me again to Air Supremacy. First of all, I know for a fact that this ability used to be able to drop bombs in enemy base due to it's large AOE, and I have used it for purpose as a brit player before. As far as I know, this no longer works since one of the patches pre GCS2. Maybe something has changed again due to the latest patch. I'd love to see a video of your test result. For clarity sake, I am not talking about bombs dropped on the edge of the base area if that is what you are referring to, as before you were able to cast this ability just outside the area and obliterate half of the base. This behavior, as well as other abilities like Concentration Barrage that allowed you to fire into base, were all considered to be broken and detrimental to QOL so they were all changed in one of the patches. This is not an assumption, but observation based on the games I played. I don't believe you have any reason to deceive so I will test this once I get back.

The reason why I want to use Air supremacy as an example is because similar to sector assault, this is a highly potent ability with the potential to wipe the whole army with a single click (again something that is considered to be detrimental to competitive play by both balance team and the community). The reason why I don't have a problem with this is because the UI clearly indicates where the danger area is, and clearly indicates when the player is safe from the bombing run. The AOE of the bombing run is clearly defined (scatter around the edge of the circle is not big enough to be problematic), and the circle lasts until the bombing run occurs, and then disappears. Additionally, there is 0% of a bombing run happening after the circle disappears. To put it simply, a player can simply leave the circle, wait until explosion happens, and come back into the circle to avoid it.

Sector Assault's UI can not be interpreted like this due to the tracking mechanic, and the undefined nature of when the bombing run actually occurs, and where it occurs. Not only does the bombing have the potential to occur anywhere on the map, it can happen even AFTER the circle has disappeared. The way this ability requires the player to interpret UI information in a completely different manner to other abilities is confusing and detrimental to the game.

With that said, I can give a new change proposal because it is clear you are more concerned about semantics rather than intent.
This ability needs clear indication of when the tracking phase starts and ends, and it needs to clearly indicate where the danger area is when the bombing run occurs. This can be done by:
1) Change the ability so that it is applied to a map sector (as the name suggests), so that during the tracking phase, the affected sector is highlighted on the minimap, and units within the sector is subject to tracking. AOE circle is not displayed here.
2) If a unit was tracked, and a bombing run is initiated, the destination of the bombing run is marked via an AOE circle indicator before the bomb is dropped. With this change, as OP as the locked on nature of the bombing run is, this makes it manageable.
Again, I don't know if this is feasible or not because I am not the dev, but I am not suggesting addition of any mechanic that is not already in the game, so based on the information I have, it seems possible.

Lastly, the kind of attitude shown by the vets here makes it pretty clear why people are reluctant to give feedback. I understand there is a problem with people who don't understand the game participating in balance discussions, but to expect people to know information they have no way of obtaining aside from being involved working with the devs is not how to encourage constructive discussion. This is a sure-fire way to drive away even qualified people from contributing.

If you feel that's an attack, then it's my bad. The problem comes when you give an explanation to an issue and people keep repeating the same mistake or idea they have even though you just gave a detailed reason for what is happening. People just double down on their preconceptions.

Air supremacy and other offmaps: what modders did was to lock out the possibility of casting the ability on the base sector. That doesn't mean that you can't just cast it on strat points which are bordering the enemy base. This means that on any 1v1 or 2v2 map which has a small base layout, you can just hit fine the enemy HQ (their retreat point at least) if you know were to aim.

The problem with comparing it with Air supremacy, is that it works completely different than Sector assault. I'll repeat myself, Air supremacy was an artillery strike for all that it matters. New Air Supremacy is a scout, AI strafe and 3 "artillery" plane attacks in a straight line. The tracking of the AI plane is a joke.

1) Change the ability so that it is applied to a map sector (as the name suggests), so that during the tracking phase, the affected sector is highlighted on the minimap, and units within the sector is subject to tracking. AOE circle is not displayed here.
2) If a unit was tracked, and a bombing run is initiated, the destination of the bombing run is marked via an AOE circle indicator before the bomb is dropped. With this change, as OP as the locked on nature of the bombing run is, this makes it manageable.
Again, I don't know if this is feasible or not because I am not the dev, but I am not suggesting addition of any mechanic that is not already in the game, so based on the information I have, it seems possible.

1-Wouldn't change a thing. Loiter planes will keep chasing units down through other sectors. Problem now is the fact that the player doesn't realise that he will get chased down by a bombing plane due to the delayed effect.

2-You are suggesting addition of a mechanic which needs to be coded, tested and implemented.
If say, the bombing run actually targeted a specific point on the map, it would be possible to say throw flares into the area in which it would throw the bombs. In the case of loiter, it's dynamic. It won't know where to throw it till it's on range of the unit.

That's the problem here. Unless you see something which is already in game base, done by another modder (which would later required Relic approval), forget about it been feasible. The game is maintained by a "skeleton crew" (it's a 5 year old game, most support on this kind of games ends up on the first or second year) and any implementation is been done by cooperation with community modders and players. Through the last 2/3 years we know what's the limit of what it can be done (just check what were the conditions given by Relic for the new commanders).


If you think my comment is defeatist, you got it wrong. I'm trying to shift the discussion to a point which is relevant or at least feasible to implement. If the ability suddenly became strong/OP, let's focus on what it made it OP, what it changed compared to before, instead of trying to add workarounds to a flawed concept to begin with.

The only thing changed about the ability is the scatter. Everything you brought up as an issue is functionally identical to how the ability has been, in live, for the last 2(?) years. So yes, two years of playtesting, and there havent been any serious claims that this ability is broken during that time.

Was this the only thing changed from old sector assault to current version? Can you confirm it with the mod team?
I didn't playtest, therefore i didn't gave feedback on it and just voicing an opinion on the things i can see.
From what IIRC, the ability used to suck balls. But what i feel like is that there were more changes besides making bombs hit with a smaller scatter. That's is either the time the bomb plane (BP) loiters around, the time it takes to deliver the payload and the precision it has. And with precision i mean it felt like it locked down it's target position way sooner. Basically it would bomb the shit out of the position on which the unit was first sighted but now it's chasing it down and later bombing it.

So easy to fix it.
Remove all attacks planes e put a single strafe or bomb drops...just like fragmentation from ostheer...
Or a single strafe and potent one like in coh1.

Make the thinks easy to fix...everybody have miracle ideia but simple doest work.

im a okw player and the ability is really broken...
change for a stuka dive bomber and done...

There no need in the game for a ability thats wipe entire army.

i would love if they change for the a single fragmentatiom bomb.

Literally every plane ability does it, they target the things inside the circle even if they go out as they are locked on

OKW being OP as usual.
I wasn't sure if sector assault was broken or not, until somebody used it on me.
Although I was winning the game, I wasn't stressed lets just retreat to the base.
Within 3 seconds all my tanks lost, almost all my infantry with it for some reason it defies even the UKF one, lasts forever and stalks your units wherever, you got no time to escape it.

They do test this stuff, but history has shown that relic in-house experimenting is whole other world than the one where players make things work(see the cancelled soviet commander).

Since nobody used this commander before and sector assault being barely see, nobody was vocal about it and it has remained so until it now becoming meta.

Literally every plane ability does it, they target the things inside the circle even if they go out as they are locked on

The only problem arises when it's the only offmap i can think of that has a bombing attack attached to a loiter plane.

Was this the only thing changed from old sector assault to current version? Can you confirm it with the mod team?
I didn't playtest, therefore i didn't gave feedback on it and just voicing an opinion on the things i can see.
From what IIRC, the ability used to suck balls. But what i feel like is that there were more changes besides making bombs hit with a smaller scatter. That's is either the time the bomb plane (BP) loiters around, the time it takes to deliver the payload and the precision it has. And with precision i mean it felt like it locked down it's target position way sooner. Basically it would bomb the shit out of the position on which the unit was first sighted but now it's chasing it down and later bombing it.

Yes, the only changes to the ability's function (apparently, as indicated in the notes, there were changes to the UI elements) were scatter. While the scatter changes did involve pretty large number changes, people are voicing concern about things that arent scatter; things which were exactly the same on the version we've had for 2 years.

Wasn't it the case that DSHK HMGs were apparently "op" forever but no one knew because no one used them?

Then they got used, then they got nerfed.

I get that the patchnotes only state a scatter change, but that doesn't change that the click ability is incredibly powerful and can outright win games.

Yes, the only changes to the ability's function (apparently, as indicated in the notes, there were changes to the UI elements) were scatter. While the scatter changes did involve pretty large number changes, people are voicing concern about things that arent scatter; things which were exactly the same on the version we've had for 2 years.

I hope it's just a scatter change. I have my doubts, as you know how changelog =/= ingame code ends up been. Unless the scatter was SO BAD that the buff involved a really huge number change.

Wasn't it the case that DSHK HMGs were apparently "op" forever but no one knew because no one used them?

Then they got used, then they got nerfed.

I get that the patchnotes only state a scatter change, but that doesn't change that the click ability is incredibly powerful and can outright win games.

DHSK was OP, then nerfed into a Tier 3 strat. Meta evolved requiring less doctrinal units. Dhska remained a Tier 2 strat till most of Tier 1 SU strats were nerfed.

As always, it's all relative. If you nerf all units, maybe tomorrow Partisans are OP again.

More I think about it, the more I dislike all loiters. The fact that it's hard to read what's happening, that the UI isn't always accurate (circle disappears, etc.) and that it effectively frees up the single most important player skill resource (attention/cognitive-load/micro) just puts it at odds with every other aspect of the game.

Obviously too big of a change to go through, but I guess the issue with it is also true of the il-2 loiter, the AT CAS, etc.

For what it's worth I do think there was more than just a scatter change, I had used the ability before the patch a few times but they were a while back and so my memory may be failing me.

I do think having the bombing run not be a loiter like target+chase would be a nice chance, just make the bombs land on the area you use the skill on, where-as the suppression strafe can still do its thing as it is now.

I hope it's just a scatter change. I have my doubts, as you know how changelog =/= ingame code ends up been. Unless the scatter was SO BAD that the buff involved a really huge number change.

Oh, the scatter change was massive. It was reduced from 80 to 12 (thought it was 20...). Thats basically a change from "nowhere is safe because this ability can hit anywhere" to "this ability probably wont hit units its not targeting (unless theyre really close)."

The thing is, the stuff that some (not all) people complained about were still present regardless of the scatter. The planes still attacked after the ability "ended" and the circles disappeared, and base sector hits were probably even more common because of the large scatter. My point is that these specific elements (that were cited as being the primary issues by some) werent due to a lack of playtesting, since they were present for 2 years without any complaint.

The ability itself being too wipey (due to reduced scatter) is a different story though. That probably is due to a lack of ample play testing; it takes a large sample size. Just look at this video that tightrope did in which he tested the ability:

https://youtu.be/oJW82VcEcsU?t=31m40s

He tested the ability with a fairly high unit density, non-moving targets, and all units staying inside for the full duration, yet only got modest results out of the ability. The only comment about this test was a remark that the ability looked like it would still be useless.