balance issues that still need fixing

engineers are too expensive, currently they are an even match with pioneers but a lot more expensive. the only real advantage are the mines but the mines just need a price increase.

panzergrenadiers should only get a 1 panzershreck upgrade for 75 munitions, but each panzershreck have to do 160 damage and faster reload times. panzergrenadiers kill tanks too quickly, while the soviets don't have an equivalent.

veterancy is OP. 55 damage reduction makes a huge difference it might as well be veterancy 3. vet 2 infantry and tanks takes 2x as many shots to kill, if you want to encourage unit preservation this is not the way to do it. su85 does 160 damage and t34s does 120 damage while the panzerIV has 650 hp. su85 takes 4 shots to kill a panzerIV while a t34 takes 7 shots. with veterancy 2 it takes su85 9 shots to kill a panzerIV while a t34 takes more than 11 ( 11 shots at the rear to kill a panzerIV how crazy is that? ) 25 pct damage reduction is the perfect number 6 shots for a su85 to kill a panzer IV and 8 shots for the t34 seems a lot more reasonable.

t34s have too low penetration. im tired of seeing t34 rounds bouncing off the rear of panthers and that a panzer IV can take on two t34s from the front ( the t34s should not have to rely on flanking all the time the price difference is not the same as m18s and panthers) t34 rounds even bounce of ostwinds! penetration should be set to 110 the same goes for su76.

tigers reload time should be set to 6.5 seconds and have penetration increased to 170. the tiger is supposed to be a slow but dangerous threat. tigers shooting fast and having rounds bounce of an su85 is the most ridiculous scene to see.

ive asked for these changes before but i'm asking again just because ITS NEEDED. i hold off other suggestions for now because of the size of this post.

Lets hold on for a moment shall we?

There is big patch coming out tomorrow that will add new commanders and units and probably some balance changes as well.
Current balance issues could be completely irrelevant after tomorrow and some new issues can arise.

Lets hold on for a moment shall we?

There is big patch coming out tomorrow that will add new commanders and units and probably some balance changes as well.
Current balance issues could be completely irrelevant after tomorrow and some new issues will arise.

Fixed.

What kills the fun in this game for me aside from input lag is the terminator armor on late game infantry.. specially in teamgames i often see these hordes of russian vet 3 infantry that is almost impossible to kill. The only way to reliably kill late game infantry is with abilities.. stuka bomb dive probalby the best.

I just think it looks silly when infantry can just ignore small arms fire and infantry fights all comes down to abilities "will i hit that money grenade/stuka or will he hit that uber molotov?". Not even 2-3 squads of vet 3 grenadier all with LMG puts on enough damage for anyone to care

I agree that side skirts are a little powerful on the P4. It's already a dope tank, I think skirts do too much for the t-34 to be a close enough counter tank. Given that P4s are more likely to survive longer than the t-34, then they usually have more vet than the t-34, making it harder to parody the P4 with your t-34s.

I disagree about combat engineers for the fact that combat engineers have more utility, not only with mines, but also with the m3 halftrack. Also not sure about the values but it seems like my combat engis usually beat pios 1v1, but only by 1 unit or so.

Also I disagree with your other stuff too. While pgrens are really good AT, if you give them only 1 shrek they'll have 3 mp44s, which would make them good at both AT and AI, which would probably be pretty unbalanced.

I think T-34s are fine with penetration the way they are. Panthers cost so much all around and are pretty easy to tell when they're coming so Soviets should be prepared with either su-85s or several AT guns + ram to take them out without just throwing T-34s.

You're point about the Tiger makes sense, but I think the Tiger could work either way, either as a powerhouse tank that shoots massive powerful shells that are good vs tanks or a breakthrough AI tank that can eat enemy fire while demolishing all infantry and clearing a path for your own infantry. I personally like it as an AI tank, but I think it could work they way you describe it too.

oh do i miss the days of vcoh pgrens where you can have either not both. even with my idea, it would make them less effective AT and with the nerfed vet 2 they should be easier to kill.

i see about 50 pct chance of pios winning since they don't lose accuracy on the move they can walk up to the engineers while shooting it really depends on whether or not the engineers have cover.

no t34s penetration is not fine at all, ram should NOT be an ability that soviet players have to rely on. it should be a last resort ability. the t34 is supposed to be a good all round tank but not excel in either AI or AT roles so it should have decent AT capabilities.

the panther is supposed to be the tank that's almost invincible on the front but really vulnerable on the rear like real life, it should not bounce of t34 rounds at all.

the soviets should not have to only rely on AT guns and su85s. the lack of different kind of AT units just makes the game dull if players have to constantly use hard counters. i buy this game for world war 2 where there are many different ways to handle a situation which rely on skill of the player and not a rock, paper scissors game.

i want this game to be changed from "he got tanks ok i spam su85s and guards because everything else is sucks" too "ok he have tanks i can either make enough t34s to overwhelm him or i could go for the hard counters like su85s"

just look at the main concepts of the two factions. the german faction has tanks that are either really good against infantry or really good against tanks. while the soviet faction has tanks that are good at doing both but not excel in either roles.

also keep in mind that soviet buildings are really expensive so in a tight game he is either going to stick with t3 or t4 because it's fairly uneconomical to go for both. it's currently like t3 is good in the short run when the opponent forget to make his AT while t4 is good in the long run since there really is no reason to go t3.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197976291546

Oh my! Such a team player!

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197976291546

you stalker xD

what's the point of showing my stats?

you stalker xD

what's the point of showing my stats?

2v2+ will never be balanced.

2v2+ will never be balanced.

oh, yes it can. i believe my suggestions can improve both 1v1s and 4v4s. just because my stats show i play a lot of team games doesn't mean i never played 1v1s with friends. besides most of my suggestions are based on the performance of the vehicles. t34 rounds bouncing off the rear of a panther is an obvious problem that needs to be fixed.

besides, didn't someone showed off your stats some time before? when you were arguing that the prepatched durable 4 men mg42 was perfectly balanced and then it turns out that you only played german 1v1s and almost no games as soviets?

is this revenge against me for saying that whatever you say doesn't matter?

2v2+ will never be balanced.

This is a terrible attitude to have and I'm sure the developers will dissagree with you. As is 3v3 and 4v4 are much more balanced then vCOH ever was.

As is 3v3 and 4v4 are much more balanced then vCOH ever was.

They are quite unbalanced to be fair (currently for top200 players w/l spread is ~8% in favour of germans in 3v3 and ~16% in 4v4).
Imho team games, to an extent, just amplify unbalance issues, so balancing 1v1 does help them as well

1. Interesting. Maybe so.
2. I think it'll make shrek grens more powerful rather than less, tbh.
3. A bit. Especially the survivability vet.
4. Nah. T-34 can't really have any more buffs without being stupidly OP for the cost. (price difference includes much more AI and ram... so, I'm kind of OK with a well-managed P-IV taking 2 T-34s, not that I see that often. 110 pen is *way* too high for the pricepoint and multi-utility. T-34s not doing much to the massively more expensive Panther doesn't seriously perturb me.
5. Doesn't bother me none but maybe.

---

My own list:

1. Ju-87 strafe still too cheap at 120 munis.
2. S-mines not really cost-effective, even as area denial.
3. T-34/85s, since the T-34/76 buffs, are not much use for anything except complimenting SU-85s. They probably need a buff.
4. LMG is somewhat too good.
5. Too many ways to one-ability-destroy a howitzer or PAK-43 gun.
6. Ostheer sniper needs 80 health so he doesn't die so quickly for stupid reasons.

Jinsuel and Omega: Whatever, man. Think that if you want. In future would help if you classify your balance positions as applying to and being derived from 2v2+, for obvious reasons.

Jinsuel and Omega: Whatever, man. Think that if you want. In future would help if you classify your balance positions as applying to and being derived from 2v2+, for obvious reasons.

dude you completely ignore what other people say so you can continue with your pointless bullshit, i talked many times about balancing around 1v1s and 4v4s. i clarify many times on how changes affect both 1v1s and 2v2+

hell you are judging how i play based on what you see on my stats. while your stats show that you only played germans and none as soviets, so you have even less credibility than i do.

hell you are judging how i play based on what you see on my stats. while your stats show that you only played germans and none as soviets, so you have even less credibility than i do.

I haven't judged how you play, anywhere. NOWHERE.
Don't accuse me of having done something I have NOT done!

I am simply stating that 2v2+ are not really valid for arguing balance.

Those gamemodes are fundamentally different from 1v1, and balancing is based in 1v1.

That's just how it is.

You can rave, rant, rage, cry, whine, scream all you want, but that simply is incontrovertible.

yes, i already know that the balance are based on 1v1. it still doesn't make a difference because im talking about the basic performance of each unit. i'm talking about obvious problems like the t34s bad penetration. this game is not fully balanced on 1v1s either and i'm not arguing just for 4v4s im arguing for all of them.

Ok.

veterancy is OP. 55 damage reduction makes a huge difference it might as well be veterancy 3. vet 2 infantry and tanks takes 2x as many shots to kill

In what magical system of maths does a .55 dmg reduction result in taking 2x as many shots to kill? Especially when at equal vet, those Sov units have a dmg bonus that you COMPLETELY NEGLECTED TO INCLUDE.

su85 does 160 damage and t34s does 120 damage while the panzerIV has 650 hp. su85 takes 4 shots to kill a panzerIV while a t34 takes 7 shots. with veterancy 2 it takes su85 9 shots to kill a panzerIV while a t34 takes more than 11 ( 11 shots at the rear to kill a panzerIV how crazy is that? ) 25 pct damage reduction is the perfect number 6 shots for a su85 to kill a panzer IV and 8 shots for the t34 seems a lot more reasonable.

Why the fuck are you comparing vet 0 units with vet 2 units?
Why the fuck are you not including Sov vet dmg and armor bonus into your figures?
What kind of deliberately doctored numbers are these that are presented without honestly adjusting them to represent vet on BOTH sides?

t34s have too low penetration.

Says who? T34s SPECIFICALLY got adjusted in August patch, and SPEFICICALLY adjusted both penetration AND dmg. Do you know what that means? It means RELIC ALREADY LOOKED AT THAT AND ADJUSTED IT TO WHERE THEY WANT IT. Your perception that "T34s have too low penetration" is entirely and only, in your own head.

im tired of seeing t34 rounds bouncing off the rear of panthers

Panthers are the fucking highest non-doctrinal T4 tank INGAME.
And you want a cheap T3 tank that can also ram it, to be able to consistently penetrate?
HELLO?!

the t34s should not have to rely on flanking all the time the price difference is not the same as m18s and panthers

"The role of the T34 is that of a flanker meant to exploit enemy weak points with hit and run tactics."

-https://help.sega.com/entries/21924195-Company-of-Heroes-2-Patch-Notes-Updated-Regularly-

READ IT.

Why the fuck are you comparing vet 0 units with vet 2 units?
Why the fuck are you not including Sov vet dmg and armor bonus into your figures?
What kind of deliberately doctored numbers are these that are presented without honestly adjusting them to represent vet on BOTH sides?

i could talk about the veterancy of both sides, but that's something to be addressed later. i'm talking about how veterancy is OP overall and how OP it is that a vet 0 or vet 1 unit is hopelessly outclassed by a vet 2. the gap is too large.

Ok.

Says who? T34s SPECIFICALLY got adjusted in August patch, and SPEFICICALLY adjusted both penetration AND dmg. Do you know what that means? It means RELIC ALREADY LOOKED AT THAT AND ADJUSTED IT TO WHERE THEY WANT IT. Your perception that "T34s have too low penetration" is entirely and only, in your own head.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/company-of-heroes-2-discussion/topics/CoH-2-Changelog?page=2

look at august 20.

75 penetration to 80 penetration. WOW BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

Panthers are the fucking highest non-doctrinal T4 tank INGAME.
And you want a cheap T3 tank that can also ram it, to be able to consistently penetrate?
HELLO?!

did you put into consideration ramming panthers is not a 100 pct main gun destroyed? or that the soviets have to go either t3 or t4 as they could not economically go for both? and that t3 has no anti tank assets at all?

yes i want the t34s to be able to consistently penetrate THE REAR! if you have trouble with t34s poking at its rear than have something to defend it! something should stop the germans from throwing their tanks into battle without support.