USF Tech Changes Mod Changelog

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 18:53 PMmiragefla

Your officer should still be arriving as the third unit if you're rushing for it. You might float a bit of MP, but you can also immediately build a team weapon off the bat, just delayed, which we found as a fair thing.

You want map control/early combat power: you go with the 3 rifles. You want a slower, but more diverse start, you go LT then .50cal or have your Captain fast build delayed units. Or build an extra RE instead during the delay.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 00:48 AMsherlock

I see the rational, I'll try and see with a couple more games.

A couple of things I noticed: all first light vehicles had their cost increased by 50 manpower with the exception of the m20 (which had a 100mp discount with v1 and now a 50mp discount) due to the change to Lt and Cpt cost in comparison to vanilla pricing. I don't think it is a problem, but maybe something to be further tested.

The M20 hits the field later now if one goes for a 3 riflemen start. The only build order that allows similar timing is 2 rifles, Lt, rifle, unlock, m20 which is a build that sacrifices a lot of map presence due to the high build time of the Lt and the delay of the 3rd riflemen due to the Lt tech as the third unit. I'm not sure if this is a problem either, but something that might require further testing.

With a couple of games, I like most changes. I think nades could be bumped up to 20 fuel due to the added utility of smoke and the increase in starting resources.

Airborne Doctrine
The following changes have been made to Airborne as the doctrine faced borderline irrelevance in this new tech structure. Both weapon drops should represent an attractive choice for players using a full LT or CPT build. The munition cost should prohibit weapon drop spam in team games.
-50 cal HMG now costs 125 manpower - 60 munitions
-57mm ATG now costs 125 manpower - 75 munitions. Now comes at 3cp
-Pathfinders available from 0cp

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 08:22 AMEsxile

Why don't you simply put them a 200mp each. You're not making this doctrine anymore viable by making it heavy munition sink.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 08:25 AMSander93

Donating the team weapons (especially the .50) to a Soviet ally would become real problematic at 200MP. The munitions cost presents a strategic choice. The drops still give USF plenty of advantages, mainly not having to spend fuel on team weapon unlock (so faster tanks) and preventing getting another officer squad when what you really want is Paras.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 08:37 AMEsxile

Better have both officer squads and one less riflemen + Para than spending munition on drops. It is not like USF is floating in munition.

If you want to rush sherman with Lieutenant first, what would be the reason to unlock the Stuart? better unlock the captain
If you want to rush sherman with Captain first, what would be the reason to unlock AAHT + pakH? Build 1 or 2 mortar if you need that much indirect fire. Better unlock the Lieutenant next.

Then Para will greatly benefice from officer smoke, in fact para have much more synergy with officers than riflemen.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 00:48 AMsherlock

...
The M20 hits the field later now if one goes for a 3 riflemen start. The only build order that allows similar timing is 2 rifles, Lt, rifle, unlock, m20 which is a build that sacrifices a lot of map presence due to the high build time of the Lt and the delay of the 3rd riflemen due to the Lt tech as the third unit. I'm not sure if this is a problem either, but something that might require further testing. (Edit: I should have mentioned that this is in comparison to vanilla m20 timings)
...

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 09:47 AMVipper

I am under the impression you are looking things from of perspective how to optimize USF build order with the tech changes.

Imo you should be looking things from of the perspective of how it compares to Ostheer tech options.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 09:56 AMsherlock

You are mistaken. I am playing the mod and point out what I observe. I am looking at how the timing compares to how it is now (the unmodded version). I also realise the futility of these "bait and switch" discussions, which is why I'll refrain from entertaining them, within threads, if you wish to discuss this and other points further, please feel free to pm me.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 09:56 AMsherlock

As it stands, the m20 is now less potent when it hits the field since the close range damage was reduced (for good reason) and hits it slightly later depending on build order. Its window of opportunity is notoriously short and potentially shortened, which is why I pointed it out.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 10:39 AMVipper

The far accuracy of the M20 is buffed considerably both base and vetted and the unit can kite from range 40, at vet 3 the close accuracy is superior to current one.

The unit should be able to vet allot faster.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 11:37 AMKatitof

And close accuracy of M20 is gutted completely.
It'll be 222, but without a weapon that would be good against anything.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 09:56 AMsherlock

You are mistaken. I am playing the mod and point out what I observe. I am looking at how the timing compares to how it is now (the unmodded version). I also realise the futility of these "bait and switch" discussions, which is why I'll refrain from entertaining them, within threads, if you wish to discuss this and other points further, please feel free to pm me.

As it stands, the m20 is now less potent when it hits the field since the close range damage was reduced (for good reason) and hits it slightly later depending on build order. Its window of opportunity is notoriously short and potentially shortened, which is why I pointed it out.

Jump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 09:47 AMblvckdream

What´s the reason of putting Pak Howi behind side-tech? Doesn´t make that much sense to me. It would be fine if it was just unlocked after you get your Captain out. Against Ostheer you need indirect fire relatively early to deal with MG42s. It´s not really viable to get Pak Howi for that because it just arrives way too late.

We played around 10 games with the revamp patch. USF seemed good in 1v1. The earlier officer squad makes a real difference. So does the availability of AT options in every tier. I don´t think there is much of a problem with the changes in 1v1. Generally positive IMO.

In 2v2 USF still seemed pretty bad though. Not sure if the revamp mod will make USF a viable 2v2 faction, I guess UKF and Soviets will still be better than them. The problems that USF had in team games aren´t really solved.