So, how about bring back Riflemen Smoke?

The basic infantry of every faction has at least one big advantage.
However, the first concept of USF had a basic infantry that was slightly more versatile than other factions due to its very rigid tier structure.
At present, I think that the problem of rigid tier structure is serious because of the deletion of versatility of Riflemen (typically smoke grenade), which has caused bad results in GCS.
USF is an early game limited choice of options compared to other faction.
So to solve it, you have to give at least one of two options.

1. Return versatility of basic infantry
2. The overwhelming push-power to push your opponent's diversity

In my opinion, I prefer 1 choice rather than 2 to make more reasonable game.
At least I think it is right to give Riflemen as much smoke grenade as the initial concept.

especially with the mortar Nerfs turning making them barage only effective units, it really hurts to get them early and mid game.

Mortar is just bad, and its game losingly bad to get as your first three-four core units.

delete it or move to another tier and make it good, bring back rife smoke.

It would force Ostheer to actually micro their MG's and use their brains so not an option, sorry

Flanking the MG actually requires much more precise finesse and brain than installing the MG. Let's think about why OKW users complain about Maxim spamming. In general, OKW has many more options than the current US without a smoke grenade. Nonetheless, their complaints were accepted and led to the buff (smoke grenade for volksgrenadiers) of the firestorm doctrine and the nerf of the maxim. To be forced to flanking is often an unequal battle. For example, if Panzer4 succeeds in flanking, it is very easy to destroy the SU-85. But no one thinks the Panzer4 is a counter unit of the SU-85. At this time, the Panzer4 catching the SU-85 as a Flanking belongs to an intelligent play and an unexpected variable, and it is no wonder that it should be done.

Likewise, at least the Soviet Union has an M3 half-track and the UKF has a WASP universal carrier. These two units are at least able to kick the MG without having to spend more heads than smoke grenades. But USF does not exist at all. (Of course there is a dodge truck, but it is a doctrine unit, and there is no flamethrower to quickly remove the MG.)

You should watch GCS1 games of HelpingHans vs Luvnest on Faymonville approach I believe. Luvnest smoke spammed Hans ostheer TO DEATH.

why smoke when you can give them "Willy-Peter" nades(also known as OKW magic flame nade), just to be sure that this stupid MG will burn all the way home. And make that units hit by WP will stay visible, like comet/cromwell tracking ability.
That will really make ostheer think!
#plsnoban #justpassingby

I'd be more for the grenade side tech being cheaper so it isn't such a resource drain. It used to be worth it when rifles got the smoke but now since it's on 2-3 squads typically Itd be better if they got a price reduction to reflect its current strength.

As it is now 90% of games as USF you will not be able to spend that additional resources early that will delay tech or rifles. Since USF has such a fragile balance in the early game anyways the current price of USF nades isnt worth it imo.

I'd be more for the grenade side tech being cheaper so it isn't such a resource drain. It used to be worth it when rifles got the smoke but now since it's on 2-3 squads typically Itd be better if they got a price reduction to reflect its current strength.


As it is now 90% of games as USF you will not be able to spend that additional resources early that will delay tech or rifles. Since USF has such a fragile balance in the early game anyways the current price of USF nades isnt worth it imo.

Exacly I like current state its good change that rifleman have only granades and officers and re smokes but this side tech its too much ambu and granades upgrade cost u so much that i only bulid ambu and rush for jackson. Anyway granade upgrade should cost 10 or 15 fuel.

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So, how about no

At least we can give smoke grenades to the starting RE squad for free, while the future squads will have to wait for the upgrade. This will make USF players more careful and it will also boost RE's survivability as the player will be extremely careful not to lose his starter RE squad.

PS : With the high rate of fire of the MG-42, 2 squads approaching from different angles, will get pinned no matter which squad the MG will target first. The time to recover from yellow pin is pretty long. And please, don't take this comment as an excuse to nerf MG-42. It's fine as it is.

At least we can give smoke grenades to the starting RE squad for free, while the future squads will have to wait for the upgrade. This will make USF players more careful and it will also boost RE's survivability as the player will be extremely careful not to lose his starter RE squad.

PS : With the high rate of fire of the MG-42, 2 squads approaching from different angles, will get pinned no matter which squad the MG will target first. The time to recover from yellow pin is pretty long. And please, don't take this comment as an excuse to nerf MG-42. It's fine as it is.

It's also an interesting idea. I agree with both of your thoughts; RE and MG42.
The MG42 is fine. I also think it is inappropriate for RE to be used exclusively for mine sweeper only.
USF players rarely use this upgrade because most grenade upgrades now use 150 manpower and 25 fuel. Investing in this price to use only grenades is considered a very unattractive choice for USFs with a rigid tier up structure.

Agreed about mg42 is fine. and agreed about RE too.
nowdays, 150 manpower and 25 fuel cost grenade upgrade for riflemen is quite expensive i thought.
In my opinion, make it more useful or less cost needed.

The upgrade provides grenades for riflemen and smoke grenades for officer and RE.

How about giving back smoke to Riflemen and removing the USF mortar?

The upgrade provides grenades for riflemen and smoke grenades for officer and RE.

How about giving back smoke to Riflemen and removing the USF mortar?

I think it's okay if only one disadvantage is solved in personal opinion. USF has no way to take out enemies from buildings in urban combat. Cause there is no flamethrower, incendiary grenade or sniper, there is no way for USF to get rid of it if the axis just stood in the strategically important building. A grenade can be a very soft counter in some cases, but it is easily useless if your opponent repeats exit-enter quickly.
If you give me one thing as a countermeasure against this, I think it's okay to remove the mortar and revive the smoke.

The upgrade provides grenades for riflemen and smoke grenades for officer and RE.

How about giving back smoke to Riflemen and removing the USF mortar?

It'll move USF back to the spot where they are the only faction with no manpower only counter for garrisons and HMGs.

It'll move USF back to the spot where they are the only faction with no manpower only counter for garrisons and HMGs.

Ostheer mortar is not a "no manpower only" counter garrison since it requires fuel, same goes for OKW grenades.

Where do you come up with these weird claims, do you actually want to make a point or you just arguing for arguing?

Ostheer mortar is not a "no manpower only" counter garrison since it requires fuel, same goes for OKW grenades.

Don't play dumb.

Where do you come up with these weird claims, do you actually want to make a point or you just arguing for arguing?

Considering the above, I'm directing that question right back at you.

Ostheer mortar is not a "no manpower only" counter garrison since it requires fuel, same goes for OKW grenades.

Where do you come up with these weird claims, do you actually want to make a point or you just arguing for arguing?

Of course, there is very little fuel to build a tier 1 building. But it could be built as soon as you just start the game, which consumes less fuel than USF upgrading the grenade.
Also, because ostheer also has a t0 flamethrower, t1 sniper, t2(flamethrower)halftrack.
mortar is not the only countermeasure. However, the USF upgrade tier to 1 (still no counters to garrison) consumes 50 fuels, and t2(for packgun) consumes 60 fuels. Thus, without mortar, it will take a very long time to develop a countermeasure against garrison.

Of course, there is very little fuel to build a tier 1 building. But it could be built as soon as you just start the game, which consumes less fuel than USF upgrading the grenade.
Also, because ostheer also has a flamethrower, sniper, halftrack.
mortar is not the only countermeasure. However, the USF upgrades from 0 tier to 1 tier and consumes 50 to 60 fuel. Thus, without mortar, it will take a very long time to develop a countermeasure against garrison.

I am simply demonstrating the silliness of "no manpower only" claim, it does really mean anything and it is made just to simply create impressions.

The thing is quite simply either riflemen have smoke and not mortar or riflemen have no smoke and a mortar. Else they simply have an overwhelming advantage over Ostheer since they can completely shut down their HMG. This has been tried and it has been proven.

On the other hand smoke from all mortars should be delivered allot faster.

I am simply demonstrating the silliness of "no manpower only" claim.

The thing is quite simply either riflemen have smoke and not mortar or riflemen have no smoke and a mortar. Else they simply have an overwhelming advantage over Ostheer since they can completely shut down their HMG. This has been tried and it has been proven.

By the same logic, how comes Pioneer access to FT when the 251 can also have it? Both also shut down USF infantry play.

Anyway, I'm not particularly interested on rifleman having back smoke, I don't think it is going to chance anything at the moment.

By the same logic, how comes Pioneer access to FT when the 251 can also have it? Both also shut down USF infantry play.

Anyway, I'm not particularly interested on rifleman having back smoke, I don't think it is going to chance anything at the moment.

Pioneers with Flamers shut down USF infantry play? seriously? Pioneer are probably the weakest flamer units.

Can we pls stop with irrelevant issues and especially since you are not interested in restoring smoke to riflemen before we derail this thread?