USF radical design changes ideas

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 00:51 AMLoopDloop

... and (IIRC) the volks’ 2 stgs combined have slightly greater dps than a single BAR at all ranges, but are on a cheaper squad with better support at almost all stages of the game...

Jump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 18:42 PMelchino7

Considering that getting an OKW like rework is impossible, you think that shuffling units from tiers wouldn't work at all because one would be the defacto tier to choose from?
If i'm not missing the point, i think we are just gonna discuss whether keeping the current model with "stand alone" officers but with an easier access to both versus a straight linear tech is better.

Jump back to quoted post24 Oct 2018, 22:56 PMinsaneHoshi

Does 6 = 4?

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 07:27 AMEsxile

...
-M1ATG having also a wider cone of fire so less flankable
...

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 00:51 AMLoopDloop

Sidenote: how come you say USF getting an okw-like rework is impossible?

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 06:39 AMVipper

Actually that is not true 2 MP44 at max range have 2.89 DPS while a single BAR has x136% more at 3.94.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 12:05 PMelchino7

Time and resource commitment needed are not worth for the state USF is in, compared to original OKW. At this point, you need to be efficient in how you implement any changes. What's the most effective way to achieve a desired goal without requiring lots of testing in either balance or implementation.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 15:53 PMLoopDloop

Ah ok. Does that mean their mid and close range dps is greater? Also, how do the total squad dps’s (4 garands, 1 BAR vs 2 stgs, 3 volk k98s) stack up at those ranges?

Huh good to know. Makes me a bit sad though.

It’d be great to at least rework airborne commander and tweak timing on recon support a bit for the reasons I mentioned that make it hard to use their callins to the full extent though.

Jump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 16:38 PMRoastinGhost

Point Blank:
Rifles and 1 BAR: 6.79x4+13.2= 40.36
Volks with StGs: 4.74x3+7.52x2= 29.26
15 Range:
Rifles and 1 BAR: 3.44x4+6.5= 20.26
Volks with StGs: 3.04x3+5.57x2= 20.26

Basically, a BAR doubles the firepower of one rifleman. StGs add 40-100% firepower to the guys holding them, except at ranges of 32 and above.

With no upgrades, rifles do 45% more damage point blank, but become about equal to volks at range 20 and beyond.

2xStGs are better than 1xBAR at all ranges below 30.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2018, 00:55 AMLoopDloop

Thanks for the stats. Good to know.

The last line throws me for a bit though - it says that 2xstgs are better than the 1 BAR at ranges below 30 but then there's this line:

Point Blank:
Rifles and 1 BAR: 6.79x4+13.2= 40.36
Volks with StGs: 4.74x3+7.52x2= 29.26

Did I miss something?

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2018, 01:09 AMinsaneHoshi

It depends what he means, if he is comparing two entities with STGs vs 1 bar, of course the two does more damage than the one. But all things being equal, the DPS of two stgs should be compared to 1 bar and 1 garand.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2018, 00:55 AMLoopDloop

Did I miss something?

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2018, 05:43 AMRoastinGhost

Sorry, I did- 1 BAR is also better within 7 range. Looks like I was too hasty to reply before.

• Rifles
  
• Rear Echelon
  
• M20 (unlocks on getting LT/CPT)
  

• Mortar
  
• MG
  
• Stuart
  

• Pak Howie
  
• AAHT
  
• AT Gun
  

• Each tier has one each of indirect, suppression, and AT
  
• Fuel cost items (AAHT / Stuart) are not in the same tier
  
• MG / AT gun combo is avoided (would be OP and allow to rush Major)
  
• LT has static suppression/mobile AT, while CPT has mobile suppression/static AT
  
• I feel they are balanced. Maybe MG/Stuart > AAHT/ATGun, but then Pak Howie > Mortar
  
• M20 Utility vehicle always available (for the... utility)
  
• USF early game has to use skill (flanking, RE smoke)
  

Jump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 00:42 AMEuan

I think nobody is reading this thread anymore, but I agree that swapping tech around is a simple and potentially viable way of fixing the problem. I think there's only one way that really makes sense:

Base tier

• Rifles
  
• Rear Echelon
  
• M20 (unlocks on getting LT/CPT)
  

LT Tier

• Mortar
  
• MG
  
• Stuart
  

CPT Tier

• Pak Howie
  
• AAHT
  
• AT Gun
  

Okay, so why is this good?

• Each tier has one each of indirect, suppression, and AT
  
• Fuel cost items (AAHT / Stuart) are not in the same tier
  
• MG / AT gun combo is avoided (would be OP and allow to rush Major)
  
• LT has static suppression/mobile AT, while CPT has mobile suppression/static AT
  
• I feel they are balanced. Maybe MG/Stuart > AAHT/ATGun, but then Pak Howie > Mortar
  
• M20 Utility vehicle always available (for the... utility)
  
• USF early game has to use skill (flanking, RE smoke)
  

That's all I got. I'm going to bed so let me know how dumb I am and I'll check it in the morning

Jump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 08:15 AMEsxile

You need to make grenade way cheaper or put back smoke on rifle if you link mortar with T1.
I can't see why you would go captain over lieutenant except for the pak which is a bad design imo and you still have the problem of expensive back-teching just to get or the HMG or the M1Atg.

I repeat myself but AAHT is countered by pak or Raketen (one shot is enough to send your AAHT at your base for repair), your own M1 isn't going to change that. On the other hand, the Stuart is much more mobile and pfaust are a much great threat than pak or raketen, here the HMG is key to suppress squads before they can reach pfaust range.

Current USF design is out of date. if it is to keep the same and just changing some units from tiers, better keep the actual one and buff what needs to be buffed.