Can USF get some real mines now please

Invissed a few posts.

Let's not bash each other; instead discuss in a constructive manner.

Carry on.

I've seen jacksons bounce shots from a p4, but you don't see me going around saying that the Jackson has good armour

Yeah, it happens sometimes, i won't deny that. Shermans also happen to bounce some shots from Panzer IVs.

Given that the Panther serves a tank destroyer role in this game, I'd say that's working as intended then.

A tank destroyer that is categorized as a medium tank.

I do agree that the m20 is overpriced and I think to solution should simply be to increase the fuel cost to around 45 and have the skirts preinstalled.

You think the unit is overpriced because of a 70 muni upgrade, so you want to more than double the fuel cost an remove the muni upgrade? That makes no sense.

There's a lot of talk about how to balance US with how poorly its done in GCS

However, there's definitely seems to be a reluctance to give them AT gun in lieutenant tier, which honestly would be boring af because its one of the factions major asymmetries.

Giving USF mines would go a long way to fixing this problem, as bazookas a lone on rear echelon is simply just too dependant on bad play from the other player/ or suitable map that its not reliable in itself. For a faction that is extremely reliant of flanking, unmitgated light vehicle play can shut USF down in its tracks with minimal effort. The lack of mines also means much better risk reward benefit of light vehicle base diving for wipes/ ambulance.

Its about time USF gets real mines, for a muni starved faction like USF, mines would also be a healthy trade off against getting more BAR's and allow a well set up trap with bazookas to be actually effective (even the fear of mines would reduce the low risk base diving that people face vs USF at the moment)

"Lel not a balance issue l2p"
I'm not the greatest player but I'm ok and generally rank 500 ish in every faction, and this really isn't about me the GCS results speak for themselves.

"yeah more buffz for allies fan boys, DAE katitof pls go away"
I play and actually enjoy every faction in the game except maybe Soviets a little less, so no I don't fan boy USF. There's no reason to favor one faction over others with buffs, because you'll just end up with longer queue times.

"They already have mines from m20, git gud at using m20, i do it all the time, l2p issue"
This is disengenius expensive teller mines that 1 shot other vehicles locked behind a tech tier and also a vehicle like saying wehr pioneer shouldnt have mines because half track can use riegels.

When they give up their free units with tech that help them maintain pressure early game, sure.

#CheckYourPrivilege

When they give up their free units with tech that help them maintain pressure early game, sure.

#CheckYourPrivilege

When they don’t have to spend 500+ manpower and 50 fuel on nades, racks, and their only source of healing, sure.

When they don’t have to spend 500+ manpower and 50 fuel on nades, racks, and their only source of healing, sure.

Imagine paying close to that and not getting AT, weapon grenades or on field healing that's also AOE as well as not getting free squads. Now you have the Soviet.

When they don’t have to spend 500+ manpower and 50 fuel on nades, racks, and their only source of healing, sure.

That doesn't make any sense. Everyone else has very similar tech costs.


And I'd say the extra 100 mp for nades is offset by the damn free units with tech, no?

Also, dbl bars > stgs. And mainline infantry can get zookas (although volks having shreks is FORBIDDEN!), so I think it's fair enough, no?

OKW and Ost also pay for healing. OKW can only get it in T1. 100+200+fuel

That doesn't make any sense. Everyone else has very similar tech costs.


And I'd say the extra 100 mp for nades is offset by the damn free units with tech, no?

Also, dbl bars > stgs. And mainline infantry can get zookas (although volks having shreks is FORBIDDEN!), so I think it's fair enough, no?

OKW and Ost also pay for healing. OKW can only get it in T1. 100+200+fuel

The tech costs are just that, tech costs and they indeed allow for similar timings of medium armor.

However all allied faction pay side costs in large quantities of menpower and fuel to unlock nades and weapons that goes over the tech cost.

Axis just techs, allies have to choose what they want/need and that choice impacts timing of med armor.

The tech costs are just that, tech costs and they indeed allow for similar timings of medium armor.

However all allied faction pay side costs in large quantities of menpower and fuel to unlock nades and weapons that goes over the tech cost.

Axis just techs, allies have to choose what they want/need and that choice impacts timing of med armor.

That's true. You're right...

But... Honestly want to know your opinion:

Does the USA (not allies) side tech cost balance out when you consider the free units that come with tech and enable early game domination?

My feeling is that's a very big advantage to get a free unit while your opponent spends 300mp for tech. And it gives an early-game resource boost because of territory loss.



And 2nd question - back to OP's point about mines. All things considered, is it not fair to not give regular mines to USF?

Given current state of USF and how these free units were nerfed in the past?
Not really.

Remember you have no choice of not getting these squads, making its pop cap you have to use.

Plus, menpower and fuel aren't equally important - well, they are, but fuel brings bigger toys faster if you don't need to spend it on basic needs.

Given current state of USF and how these free units were nerfed in the past?
Not really.

Remember you have no choice of not getting these squads, making its pop cap you have to use.

Plus, menpower and fuel aren't equally important - well, they are, but fuel brings bigger toys faster if you don't need to spend it on basic needs.

Cry me a river, since when do people worry about pop cap in the early & midgame? I'd love heavily equipped free squads when playing another faction. If its too much inf just build one less rifle (from 4 to 3). Problem solved. In fact I rarely see USF players get more than 3. Show me a time when USF reached full pop before they built a tank. Even the major is very useful with all of the abilities that other factions need to pick a doctrine for and being able to double upgrade a 3 man squad?! What about the free crews that USF gets with every vehicle? Easily 3-4 pop saved per vehicle as the pop cost of the vehicle doesn't reflect the crew it gets. Typical Katitof, more biased thinking from you.

I'm surprised this thread has gone on for so long. Few people realize how cost effective the RE mines are. They do roughly what a pak TWP does for 10 munis and don't require split second timing. Sure the effects aren't permanent but USF tanks are fast, so they'd have little trouble catching up with stunned tanks.

Cry me a river, since when do people worry about pop cap in the early & midgame? I'd love heavily equipped free squads when playing another faction. If its too much inf just build one less rifle (from 4 to 3). Problem solved. In fact I rarely see USF players get more than 3. Show me a time when USF reached full pop before they built a tank. Even the major is very useful with all of the abilities that other factions need to pick a doctrine for and being able to double upgrade a 3 man squad?! What about the free crews that USF gets with every vehicle? Easily 3-4 pop saved per vehicle as the pop cost of the vehicle doesn't reflect the crew it gets. Typical Katitof, more biased thinking from you.

I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying its not helping given current balance state, which the question about.

If you need anything else explained, just shoot a question.

That's true. You're right...

But... Honestly want to know your opinion:

Does the USA (not allies) side tech cost balance out when you consider the free units that come with tech and enable early game domination?

My feeling is that's a very big advantage to get a free unit while your opponent spends 300mp for tech. And it gives an early-game resource boost because of territory loss.



And 2nd question - back to OP's point about mines. All things considered, is it not fair to not give regular mines to USF?

Yes. That was my original point. It’s not “privilege” if it comes with an equally large caveat. Also, would you pay 500 manpower and 50 fuel for an infantry squad? Even if you take out the ambulance cost, you’re trading 250ish manpower and 40 fuel in sidetechs for one free infantry squad. Major sorta kinda doesn’t count, as he’s a powerful unit but definitely doesn’t exert a lot of pressure on the enemy. He does have potent abilities though. Something like the okw flak base is just as “free” as free officers that usf gets and doesn’t come with substantial sidetechs just to throw grenades and upgrade BARs/zooks. Not saying it’s not unbalanced but again, it’s not “privilege” if it has an equally large compensating cost elsewhere. USF is also designed to crutch on having lots of mainline infantry like no other faction, as even okw has the kubel and sturms in the early game that help as force multipliers and can cut bleed a lot through much better trading in combat than riflemen are capable of.

That doesn't make any sense. Everyone else has very similar tech costs.


And I'd say the extra 100 mp for nades is offset by the damn free units with tech, no?

Also, dbl bars > stgs. And mainline infantry can get zookas (although volks having shreks is FORBIDDEN!), so I think it's fair enough, no?

OKW and Ost also pay for healing. OKW can only get it in T1. 100+200+fuel

USF ambualnce can be destoyed if 222 rush base visit and volks stgs no research just one little early truck like you suppose to put in the game no penalty cost for nades for research pretty balanced

Yes. That was my original point. It’s not “privilege” if it comes with an equally large caveat. Also, would you pay 500 manpower and 50 fuel for an infantry squad? Even if you take out the ambulance cost, you’re trading 250ish manpower and 40 fuel in sidetechs for one free infantry squad. Major sorta kinda doesn’t count, as he’s a powerful unit but definitely doesn’t exert a lot of pressure on the enemy. He does have potent abilities though. Something like the okw flak base is just as “free” as free officers that usf gets and doesn’t come with substantial sidetechs just to throw grenades and upgrade BARs/zooks. Not saying it’s not unbalanced but again, it’s not “privilege” if it has an equally large compensating cost elsewhere. USF is also designed to crutch on having lots of mainline infantry like no other faction, as even okw has the kubel and sturms in the early game that help as force multipliers and can cut bleed a lot through much better trading in combat than riflemen are capable of.

.


Sure, I can agree with the idea that it perhaps balances out. BARs cost extra whereas STGs don't. I'm not sure it totally balance out though, I think you missed a couple of points.



I think you should consider the ability to equip handheld AT on any infantry squad as a big advantage. OKW does not have this advantage. You have to sacrifice 25% sturm anti inf and minesweeper to get it. And they are expensive to reinforce, can't be spammed like RE. Zookas are lovely vs lights and meds. Shrek blobs are basically impossible but RE zook blobs are cheap. So after dominating early game with the USF inf blob and free units, when your opponent gets out a light to punish your blob, you just get Res with zooks, so he can't take advantage.

tldr; the ability to equip handheld AT on any unit is way more powerful than the ability to lay non-doctrinal mines.


Also, OKW's Volks get no nuke grenade. They get a nice flame grenade which is very useful but not a squad-wipe tool, like the pineapple. I'm not complaining but I think it should be noted that the USF grenade has greater wipe potential than flame nades.



Another small point: There are 3 free inf squads (though Major doesn't really count, no). A lot of players get both Lt and Cpt. And compare to OKW and Ost who do not get another free squad when they backtech or go t1 t2.


TLDR; USF players seem to want to have lots of cool toys that axis don't have AND all the toys axis have.