How about separate the smoke grenade from grenade upgrade

ummmm why r ppl acting as if mortar doesn't exist????.

Personally, i think USF should have never got the mortar and rifles should have kept ther smoke.

AND ostheer is the most munition starved faction out of all

I start wondering why a grenade costs more than a weapon

- Today we're going to train on how to throw grenades, comrades!
- But sir, why are we throwing potatoes then?
- Because in these days grenade costs more than your life, soldier!

It'd be nice if smoke was free, but that would put ostheer's early game in a hole because mg's would be easily counterable too early IMO. Maybe if it was locked behind the first officer it would be a little fairer. Seems dumb to have to tech for half the perennial answer to USF's problems (smoke and flank).

At the point where we are it would be easier to remove smoke from RE, make Smoke a vet1 ability for officer and cut the grenade upgrade in half. But I'm not sure it Will solve anything.


The problem with USF munition isn't that BARs are expensive but that you quickly need two on your squads to keep pace with single OST/OKW upgrades.

ummmm why r ppl acting as if mortar doesn't exist????.

Personally, i think USF should have never got the mortar and rifles should have kept ther smoke.

AND ostheer is the most munition starved faction out of all

It's about improving usf early game with cheaper grenade
Motars isn't as reliable as grenades when U need to win a 1v1 inf contact to make a breakthrough. Worse more, usf has already been at the disvantage of numbers of combat units. With a early Motar U would be short of men to flank unless U are a very lucky gay and ur motar shells hit every time.
I think it's never a good idea to get a early motar in 1v1.

It's about improving usf early game with cheaper grenade
Motars isn't as reliable as grenades when U need to win a 1v1 inf contact to make a breakthrough. Worse more, usf has already been at the disvantage of numbers of combat units. With a early Motar U would be short of men to flank unless U are a very lucky gay and ur motar shells hit every time.
I think it's never a good idea to get a early motar in 1v1.

But before weapon upgrades rifles are flat out better than volks and grens (as they should be for cost) so the issue isn't until a little into the game. The only thing you need to flank is the mg42 and for that the mortar is indispensable.

But before weapon upgrades rifles are flat out better than volks and grens (as they should be for cost) so the issue isn't until a little into the game. The only thing you need to flank is the mg42 and for that the mortar is indispensable.

93 games were played as USF during GCS.
30 games saw a mortar for a total of 33.

4 games saw it as a 4th unit, 3 games as a 5th unit.

Mortar is dispensable on 1v1 early on. In fact most mortars are dispensable in 1v1 and in general after the nerfs to autofire.

You can see the drop between GC2 and last year tournament meta analysis.

93 games were played as USF during GCS.
30 games saw a mortar for a total of 33.

4 games saw it as a 4th unit, 3 games as a 5th unit.

Mortar is dispensable on 1v1 early on. In fact most mortars are dispensable in 1v1 and in general after the nerfs to autofire.

You can see the drop between GC2 and last year tournament meta analysis.

Of the 93 games how many were against Ost tho? (I don't actually know) because the mortar is much less useful against OKW. 1 MG is easy enough to get around, multiple the mortar becomes more important. Against garrisons the new mortar profile does work. It's situational of course but it makes the grenade package less of a requirement. As a smoke dispenser it's great and doesn't delay teching in the same way that the grenade tech does nor does it eat into the BAR fund. And again, until upgrades start hitting the field rifles do not struggle for dominance against volks and grens outside a prepared defense, which the mortar does provide help against.

The drop in the mortar usage likley comes from it no longer being a 1 weapon war winner with the profile changes, and that's not a bad thing. being in 1/3 matches is pretty good for a non required (like an AT gun for example) support weapon.

Idk. The tools are there to allow the usf player the flexibility to focus on quick teching or beefing up rifles and to me that's a good thing

But before weapon upgrades rifles are flat out better than volks and grens (as they should be for cost) so the issue isn't until a little into the game. The only thing you need to flank is the mg42 and for that the mortar is indispensable.

U won't need a Motar unless U need to deal with a mg42. But when U do so, U will be short of combat units to flank or control the map. To be honest, motar this patch is not good agains HMGs, including Ost one.

At the point where we are it would be easier to remove smoke from RE, make Smoke a vet1 ability for officer and cut the grenade upgrade in half. But I'm not sure it Will solve anything.


The problem with USF munition isn't that BARs are expensive but that you quickly need two on your squads to keep pace with single OST/OKW upgrades.

Locking smoke behind vet 1 is something good. At least officers will have some utility (they don't have rifle grenades to face armor) besides the other abilities they have (talking about Captain and Major)

Of the 93 games how many were against Ost tho? (I don't actually know) because the mortar is much less useful against OKW. 1 MG is easy enough to get around, multiple the mortar becomes more important. Against garrisons the new mortar profile does work. It's situational of course but it makes the grenade package less of a requirement. As a smoke dispenser it's great and doesn't delay teching in the same way that the grenade tech does nor does it eat into the BAR fund. And again, until upgrades start hitting the field rifles do not struggle for dominance against volks and grens outside a prepared defense, which the mortar does provide help against.

The drop in the mortar usage likley comes from it no longer being a 1 weapon war winner with the profile changes, and that's not a bad thing. being in 1/3 matches is pretty good for a non required (like an AT gun for example) support weapon.

Idk. The tools are there to allow the usf player the flexibility to focus on quick teching or beefing up rifles and to me that's a good thing

Practically half n half. 42 games against OH and 51 against OKW.

Reminder that we were talking about early game mortar useage. ONLY 7 games from the total 93, saw it use early on as either a 4th or 5th unit.
USF struggles against OKW till the LT/Cpt unit arrives. Then it's depends on how fast each side can field a LV and how much they can get out of it. USF is not pulling ahead early on against OKW, because Volks can hold pretty well by building sandbags while capping and the initial advantage they have with the initial mp + SP vs RET + Rifle. You have much better overall capping and presence/mobility with Kubel and/or you are gonna have more units on the field than Rifles on intervals of 20/30s.


Reminder that while UKF is crap on 1v1 atm, USF also did poorly during the tournament with a sub 40% WR.

Some brainstorming idea:

USF:
-Grenades cost -25mp -5f
-Officers (LT + Cpt) cost each -100mp but they only arrive with 1 model (the officer). At 1 model, they gain a "reverse" merge ability. They can absorb any Rifle squad, no xp is saved in the process. If at 5 models, they can be momentarily at 6 models till 1 of them dies.

This achieves several goals.

1- Reduces the power spike the moment the officer arrives on the field. You would had to spend mp + time to reinforce to 5 models.
2- You can ditch the unit (a single model) if you don't need it. You can reduce the amount of Rifles you have, opening space for other call in infantry units.
3- Getting both LT + Cpt is more accessible.
4- Cpt at 1 model means it can be used for supervise effectively, without wasting popcap in the base.
5- Officers should get both grenades types unlocked.


When you reduce the powerspike of the "free officer", you open up space for buffing other aspects of the faction which might lead to space for nerfs in other factions as well.

...
Some brainstorming idea:
...

Although I understand your reason the idea sound a bit complicate to me.

Imo one could try the following. Instead of giving an LT or major the building unlocks the "promote" ability. The ability "promote" can be used in area around the building and on Riflemen, RE and vehicle crew and "refits" the unit, the unit is moved out of the map and swapped for the officer requested. This can also be a solution for unwanted vehicle crews.

As for USF "elite" unit imo the approach would be to move to CP 1.Their cost and initial punch would have to go down (and partially moved into veterancy) and that their powerful weapons would have to be locked behind officers. At CP 1 they could offer utility like no tech grenades/smoke grenades.

Some brainstorming idea:

USF:
-Grenades cost -25mp -5f
-Officers (LT + Cpt) cost each -100mp but they only arrive with 1 model (the officer). At 1 model, they gain a "reverse" merge ability. They can absorb any Rifle squad, no xp is saved in the process. If at 5 models, they can be momentarily at 6 models till 1 of them dies.

This achieves several goals.

1- Reduces the power spike the moment the officer arrives on the field. You would had to spend mp + time to reinforce to 5 models.
2- You can ditch the unit (a single model) if you don't need it. You can reduce the amount of Rifles you have, opening space for other call in infantry units.
3- Getting both LT + Cpt is more accessible.
4- Cpt at 1 model means it can be used for supervise effectively, without wasting popcap in the base.
5- Officers should get both grenades types unlocked.


When you reduce the powerspike of the "free officer", you open up space for buffing other aspects of the faction which might lead to space for nerfs in other factions as well.

These are particularly good ideas that would provide a well-thought-out fix to the recent conundrums that USF faces. It also leans on existing game-play mechanics that are known in the game. Your idea, in addition to replacing REs with Assault Engineers (whilst keeping RE as start unit and making it doctrinal), would fully suit this army and generally make things better.

ummmm why r ppl acting as if mortar doesn't exist????.

Personally, i think USF should have never got the mortar and rifles should have kept ther smoke.

AND ostheer is the most munition starved faction out of all

USF mortar is good its still a bit worst than OST pretty balanced to me