Change ostheer's Panther with Tiger and et cetera

Hello, Ostheer and Oberkommando-West have many simularities. Well, they are both about german-forces, so they have to use similar units-types. There are also some tries to make more varieties, like MG42/MG34 or PnzIV without/with skirts. But since OKW arrived with a stock King-Tiger and Panthers I wonder:

Why not give Ostheer Tigers instead of Panthers in T4? Simple give a max. limit for two Tigers at same time.

I didn't tested it, but I think it would fit better for Ostheer.
Tiger is more expensive, slower and more vulnerable to tank-hunters, but can be a key for many situations. It also needs more population, so you have to weight the odds.

(The only problem could be in 3vs3 and 4vs4, but two Tigers need as population as 3 Panthers, so?).

Panther could be avaiable in old Tiger-commanders as:

- One special call-in tank-hunter, limited to only one unit at same time with 60 range.

- Or like T34/85, as extra in T4. (maybe replaces Tiger)



Also Tiger-Ace could be changed with a King-Tiger (blocks Tiger I in T4 is chosen - If you have a Tiger 1 on field you can't call in King-Tiger, if King-Tiger is on field you can't build a Tiger 1)



Before you start hating, it is mainly about the blue-print. A nerf/buff for the Tiger is also a Option. What do you think about? Would it make Ostheer more authentic?

Ostheer T4 could use an all purpose mainline tank or a swap in T3-T4 vehicles. That could be either the Panther (switchable munition ISU style?) or the Tiger.

Specialised vehicles are allot better for Doctrinal units.

LOL

Ostheer is the most well rounded and arguably best performing faction at the moment, so why does it need to be changed up? What will replace Tiger in all the doctrines it currently comes in (swapping for stock panther is just lazy)? Why increase the heavy limit just for Ostheer?

When will the balance forums stop farting out awful ideas?

Please answer all of these questions.

How is okw and ostheer beeing similar an argument to make them even more similar? Similar factions is a bad thing! Why have 2 axis factions if they are going to be the same?

@dOPEnEWhAIRCUT: How I said, for me it simply Looks stupid if OKW can build a King an Panthers. It would look better if Ostheer would be able to use Tigers instead of Panthers, for me the blueprint matters. It would also be ok if the Tiger becomes a tank-hunter and Ostheer Panther becomes the allrounder. (simply change the blueprint).


- Even a Tiger Ace would be more logical if Tiger becomes stock.


@ferwiner: Where is it more similar?

The idea of switching the Tiger and panther for ostheer has been gone over many times both here and offsite. It would help ostheer T4 in becoming more appealing in 1v1 espeicially, but it is something that has never really made it past the brainstorming stage as far as i'm aware.

Better idea, maybe non doc command panther for wermaht ? im 100 % sure shadowlink and others will agree with me. Wermaht needs something to counter jackson. Or maybe jackson should be 45 range, anyway idea of switching panther with mause is fine for me

Better idea, maybe non doc command panther for wermaht ? im 100 % sure shadowlink and others will agree with me. Wermaht needs something to counter jackson. Or maybe jackson should be 45 range, anyway idea of switching panther with mause is fine for me

? why would I agree with that? that's a terrible idea.

? why would I agree with that? that's a terrible idea.

Sorry not u i mean that guy widerstrit aka viper second account

Depending on the crap you are writing SupremeStefan it seems you can't read correctly. Same for dOPEnEWhAIRCUT.


Is it so difficult to read the hole post?

I even wrote it depends on the blue-prind.


EDIT: Tiger was a battle-tank, same as Panther. It would simply look better if there wouldn't be more King-Tiger than normal Tigers, that was the message. Even because the Tiger was mainly produced to be used at Ostfront. (Same as King-Tiger, it was also made for the Ostfront).


Even if Tiger lose all its AI (Maybe gets an ability for a explosive shells, used like Comets smoke) the Tiger would fit good, as tank-hunter.


EDIT: Even removing Panther from Ostheer would be ok.

Off Topic :
In an alternate version of Coh2 and this world..we could have had mirrors.

Similarity is not bad thing for RTS in general. Just a different kind of horror to balance.
And could have forced away all the historical accuracy bs out of any balancing discussion.

But since we are here to enforce asymmetry into coh2 and on a more abstract level, both tanks fullfill their role very well. /rant

On Topic:
Most (ost)balancing/l2p and whatever issues comes with the strategy to use them in their destined role and we all have to admit the tiger isn't all purpose tool. its more often a better finisher, but never a must have (besides ace ofc).

However the Panther is something you want to have when it comes down to anything slugfest related and you didn't pick an elefant to deal the allied tanks. Turrets and range are always great, ask any su85 commander.

Those entities in their role shouldn't change at all. The balance behind their roles is a different thing

Depending on the crap you are writing SupremeStefan it seems you can't read correctly. Same for dOPEnEWhAIRCUT.

Oh, I know how to read and understand what you're trying to say completely:

You want the most flexible and well rounded faction that has tools to counter any challenge that the allied factions can throw at them at any phase of the game to have a doctrinal unit added to their standard roster because you enjoy trolling the balance forums with terrible ideas.

Do you understand that, though?

How does your idea add to the game? What is Ostheer lacking that it needs the Tiger to become a standard non-doc t4 unit? If your argument is simply "OKW can do it with the KT" then that isn't enough. With your change there is almost no situation where somebody who has teched to t4 would decide against getting a Tiger. It's a doctrinal unit for that reason - it covers the role of both the t4 tanks. Swapping one of those tanks for a Tiger just makes the choice that much easier to make - especially if you increase the heavy cap to two; Why would I choose Brumbar over Tiger? Also, enough with these ideas that homogenize the game further.

@ferwiner: Where is it more similar?

It is similar becouse both factions would get non-doc heavy at the top of their tech tree.

you will need to revamp all the Tiger commanders then. Its a little too late for this to be honest.

dOPEnEWhAIRCUT: No, it is simple, you can't read, because you are missing the topic again.

For me the fraction are looking too similar (many people say that too). And I say LOOKING, can even a native-Speaker can't understand simple adjectives?

I have many ideas i even posted and you are writing something I dindn't addressed.

ferwiner: For me Tiger would become more like the Panther now, maybe with an extra ability. I would like to see Tiger be the main tank-destroyer of Ostheer, not Panther. Simply to bring the blue-print in line with the presents of King-Tiger. (E.g. if Panther would become a Tiger for Ostheer, there would be simple more Tiger than Kings, for me that seems more logical).


Supplement:

At 1943 Tigers were more present at Ostfront than Panthers, even in Zitadelle the numbers were nearly the same.

So for me Panther would be the perfect replacement for Tiger in old Tiger-Commanders, like M10 for Jackson.


EDIT: Like Comets, I want Tiger be as present as blue-print. The game is like it is, but if there are diriving phantasy verhicle like Pershing, Comets or Land Mattress (all were more rare than Tigers in war) I want to see the the beauty more often. Even as Tank-Destroyer, because there is enough AI stuff.


Tiger is rare in 3vs3+, because other Units are better (with other blue-prints ^^) and even Panther rare because StuG is better, also after the nerf.

ferwiner: For me Tiger would become more like the Panther now, maybe with an extra ability. I would like to see Tiger be the main tank-destroyer of Ostheer, not Panther. Simply to bring the blue-print in line with the presents of King-Tiger. (E.g. if Panther would become a Tiger for Ostheer, there would be simple more Tiger than Kings, for me that seems more logical).


Supplement:

At 1943 Tigers were more present at Ostfront than Panthers, even in Zitadelle the numbers were nearly the same.

So for me Panther would be the perfect replacement for Tiger in old Tiger-Commanders, like M10 for Jackson.


EDIT: Like Comets, I want Tiger be as present as blue-print. The game is like it is, but if there are diriving phantasy verhicle like Pershing, Comets or Land Mattress (all were more rare than Tigers in war) I want to see the the beauty more often. Even as Tank-Destroyer, because there is enough AI stuff.


Tiger is rare in 3vs3+, because other Units are better (with other blue-prints ^^) and even Panther rare because StuG is better, also after the nerf.

There were more ppsh than STGs yet both Axis factions have STGs as a stock weapon for a stock unit and ppsh are all doctrinal. There were more t34/85s than.... Well most bloody tanks yet centaurs and ostwinds find themselves stock with very few of them made. Tiger is a damn fine tank and having it stock would upset the balance that barley exists now. Especially if you inexplicably make it a limit of 2 for what ever reason....

I would love to see tiger as a non doctrinal unit like it was at the beginning of the game. I find the limit of some units really boring

There were more ppsh than STGs yet both Axis factions have STGs as a stock weapon for a stock unit and ppsh are all doctrinal. There were more t34/85s than.... Well most bloody tanks yet centaurs and ostwinds find themselves stock with very few of them made. Tiger is a damn fine tank and having it stock would upset the balance that barley exists now. Especially if you inexplicably make it a limit of 2 for what ever reason....

And again, didn't read the hole thing, or understod it. But, the point with the stocks makes also clear that it is even more sad that Tiger is limitated.

The Tiger would be an other unit than now, limited to two e. g. to prevent spaming.

Please stay on topic and try not to bash each other. Thanks.