Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Mah Boi held the line against you using Conscripts, proving they are might fine

ppsh conscripts and I had -3 iq partner

We could do 1v1s to test if conscrips are alright if you want

ppsh conscripts and I had -3 iq partner

We could do 1v1s to test if conscrips are alright if you want

You'll likely trash me with Cons, even if I played OKW, haha.

Mechanized Arty is one of the best original abilities of the Commander, it was added to the truck so it wasn't lost in time, it should stay.

Bulldozer upgrade is a good thing too, since it allows you to pay some munitions to beef up a Sherman while also giving more utility, making a pseudo bulldozer with it's HE shells. Mechanized is full of stuff because it feels like it's mean to be an early pick, with enough options to adapt to the enemy as the battle goes on, you know?

Mechanized Arty was kept for the sake of it, I personally think it should be removed from the WC-51 and added to the all-new commander as a proper off-map again.

Bulldozer's useful but confusing. If it stays, the 105mm Sherman Bulldozer needs its own icon.

I don't think I'd want to miss out on having 2 Arty Strikes in the Commander though!

That I can agree with, much like how CavRifles need a clear icon too, specially when you give them TommyGuns and they already have the image on their icon.

You'll likely trash me with Cons, even if I played OKW, haha.

The point is, that game didnt proved anything, cons had ppsh, it was a random 2v2 where my partner had, legit, -3 iq. You need to look the general perspective, where 80% of the games people use penals

cons buff when? tired of penals (sounds like 2016 lol)

https://www.coh2.org/topic/82688/weapon-upgrades-for-standard-infatry-squads/post/698613

Read that

I think the problem with conscripts its not so much their performance, but everything that comes with it:

- Spending fuel in two grenade techs, which delays armor (dunno, maybe link the costs of both grenades just like the t1/t2 structures)
- Lack of any non doctrinal weapon update in the late game where every mainline infantry is lethal with brens, bars, lmgs or stgs. You are stuck with your mosins, just like penals are stuck with their far superior SVTs.
- Awfull maxim supression negated by yellow cover. Zis, if not for their abysmal firerate, are fine. Mortar is also pretty good.

I think the problem with conscripts its not so much their performance, but everything that comes with it:

- Spending fuel in two grenade techs, which delays armor (dunno, maybe link the costs of both grenades just like the t1/t2 structures)
- Lack of any non doctrinal weapon update in the late game where every mainline infantry is lethal with brens, bars, lmgs or stgs. You are stuck with your mosins, just like penals are stuck with their far superior SVTs.
- Awfull maxim supression negated by yellow cover. Zis, if not for their abysmal firerate, are fine. Mortar is also pretty good.

I think that conscripts should have an improvement on the DP-27 or SVT-40 when T3 or T4 is built.

You know what causes the most surprise. Many can say: the history is one, the balance is different, but
- STG-44 produced about 450,000 and all have it without doctrines and with doctrines.
- PPSh-41 was produced around 7,000,000 and this is only in the doctrine, in fact you can arm all your troops with only submachine guns
This is ridiculous. Engineers should be armed with PPSh-41, for them it was the main weapon, conscripts should have an improvement for PPSh-41 without a doctrine. Replace the command ability of PPSh-41 to SVT-40

Consider moving the Brumbar vet rotation bonus to vet 2 or the dozer rotation bonus to vet 3.

You might also want to check the Dozer reload times with full radio net bonus especially at vet3.

(actually you might want to removed radio net from units that get reload as vet bonus)

I love the commissar squad thematically, but it feels under-powered. I think it should still act as a retreat point, that doesn't lock down like the major, but works like the British captain in COH1, with a cool-down on each squad that uses it.

Also, the timing of Jaegers feels weird at 1cp, they still cant replace a 4th Volksgrenadier squad and having to buy their rifle feels like a massive nerf that interferes with the pacing of Volksgrenadier stg upgrade. Also, not having infiltration grenades makes them feel much worse than their scavenge counterparts.

The German infantry doctrine is really fun to play, I love how versatile PG are in that doctrine, I wish more doctrines had this available for PG.

Consider moving the Brumbar vet rotation bonus to vet 2 or the dozer rotation bonus to vet 3.

You might also want to check the Dozer reload times with full radio net bonus especially at vet3.

(actually you might want to removed radio net from units that get reload as vet bonus)

Dozer having more rotation speed than brummbar is definitely not an issue. Dozer has nowhere near the health and armor as the brummbar and in all likelihood is going up against panthers and/or heavy tanks, backed up by AT guns that can barely penetrate panthers/heavies.

Dozer having more rotation speed than brummbar is definitely not an issue. Dozer has nowhere near the health and armor as the brummbar and in all likelihood is going up against panthers and/or heavy tanks, backed up by AT guns that can barely penetrate panthers/heavies.

Actually the have similar health and require the same number of shot from standard AT weapons Dozer even gets more health. Brumbar 800 Dozer 720 and 880 at vet 2.

The rotation is not about balance is about scaling. Many units have only be balanced at vet 0 and scale better or worse than others.

Actually the have similar health and require the same number of shot from standard AT weapons Dozer even gets more health. Brumbar 800 Dozer 720 and 880 at vet 2.

The rotation is not about balance is about scaling. Many units have only be balanced at vet 0 and scale better or worse than others.

Issue with the brumbar is the vet armour AND health with ability for free bombard and easy wipe vs AT gun, this combined with magic panzer smoke means it has a bit too much survivability that leads reversing out with 10% health where Dozer is a ball of flame. Rotation means very little when both units are used to frontally drive up and wipe team weapons or blobs. They are not m10's...

You talk of radio net stacking but brumbar + command P4 stacking is far more cancer, I mean how many times do you see vet 3 dozer with radio net compared to brumbar with command p4? The former I have never seen and the latter I see in almost every teamgame.

Next you will be comparing comet to panther, comet must be better due to better rotation speed right?

Issue with the brumbar is the vet armour AND health with ability for free bombard and easy wipe vs AT gun, this combined with magic panzer smoke means it has a bit too much survivability that leads reversing out with 10% health where Dozer is a ball of flame.

And that is why imo it is the lethality it should be toned and not survivability.

Dozer comes with non doctrinal smoke round and if the Brumbar was reversing with 10% HP a vet 2 Dozer revamped would be reversing with 160 HP.

Rotation means very little when both units are used to frontally drive up and wipe team weapons or blobs. They are not m10's...

Rotation mean everything to brumar due to the fact that it is turretless thus has to rotate to fire and suffers from terrible pathing according to patch-notes:

"Brummbar

Developer Comments: Due to its clunky movement, the Brummbar would often get blocked against world objects. We decided to give this vehicle Heavy Crush to improve pathfinding and make it more maneuverable."

You talk of radio net stacking but brumbar + command P4 stacking is far more cancer, I mean how many times do you see vet 3 dozer with radio net compared to brumbar with command p4? The former I have never seen and the latter I see in almost every teamgame.

A Brumbar with a CP4 has the same EHP as a Dozer vet 2.
Do you know how radio net works? The unit does not have to be vet3. Do you know what is the reload speed a Dozer can have at vet 1 compared that of Brumbar vet1?
Are you talking about dozer in live or in patch?

Next you will be comparing comet to panther, comet must be better due to better rotation speed right?

Can we skip the personal remarks? I would hate to have to respond on personal level in feedback thread.

Again my point is about scaling of the 2 units, units should remain balanced from vet 0 to vet 3.

Vet2 brummbar gets more health and armor, a bonus the dozer never gets. Their veterancy provides different bonuses along different lines and that shouldn’t be a huge issue, but somehow apparently it is because dozers are so obviously going to be meta. And brummbars aren’t ever seen in teamgames, obviously because they don’t rotate fast enough.

Kappa.

Vet2 brummbar gets more health and armor, a bonus the dozer never gets. Their veterancy provides different bonuses along different lines and that shouldn’t be a huge issue, but somehow apparently it is because dozers are so obviously going to be meta. And brummbars aren’t ever seen in teamgames, obviously because they don’t rotate fast enough.

Kappa.

That is is incorrect.

A Vet 0 Brumbar has 800HP same as vet 3 Brumbar. It take 5 penetrate shots from standard ATG to kill a Brumbar. It does get an armor bonus.

A Vet 0 Dozer has 720HP, it take 5 penetrate shots from standard ATG to kill a Dozer. At vet 2 Dozer get 160 (in mod) going up to 880 and it take now 5 penetrated shots to kill a Dozer. It does not get any armor bonus.

Depending on the Penetration values of the gun firing and RNG a Dozer might even have an advantage since it can take an extra shot, but lets call them equal.

Unless something changed, only thing the Dozer will bounce above a Mauser is a PZ4 round, everything else is just down to smoke (Which is better for attacking than easy escapes) or the enemy missing.

Is it time to bring the argument that a doctrinal unit should be better than a stock one?

Unless something changed, only thing the Dozer will bounce above a Mauser is a PZ4 round, everything else is just down to smoke (Which is better for attacking than easy escapes) or the enemy missing.

Is it time to bring the argument that a doctrinal unit should be better than a stock one?

That claim is simply incorrect.

Check the following weapons and you will see that all of them can bounce when firing on Dozer frontally at max range:
1)Panzer faust
2)Panzerschreck
3) Pak 40
4) Ostwind
5) PzIV
6) Stug -E
7) Stug -G
8) Puma

Actually the only Ostheer weapon with guaranteed penetration dozer:
1) Panther
2) Tiger
3) Elephant

PLS try to check stats before making silly claims, especially in a feedback thread. It will save everyone in this forum allot of time.

PLS try to check stats before making silly claims, especially in a feedback thread. It will save everyone in this forum allot of time.

If only you could ever listen to the same advice you give to others so willingy.

Bulldozer Armor:200
Stug G Far Pen: 170
Pak40 Far Pen: 190

It has less armor than a E8, which already is easy prey to StuGs and Paks.
It might bounce one shot, once in awhile, just one shot. Up close it has no chance.