Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

The only thing everyone will ever agree on is that it's the most polarizing thing in the mod.

It would be great if we could see as many top level players as possible testing the mod to see how it changes the light armour stage of matches, and matches overall.

These changes have just gone live to the mod in a quick update. More changes will be coming in the next version of the mod.

Update: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245307/commander-revamp-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

German Infantry still has tactical movement. (what is it being replaced with?)

People seem to be forgeting that these snares are going to be going onto what becomes a 5 man squad, which often carries PIATs. Snares and AT combo on the same durable unit is deadly. Also the notes said nothing about taking away the AT gun accuracy buff vs lights. If that stays WITH snares that's overkill.

The only thing everyone will ever agree on is that it's the most polarizing thing in the mod.

Was tying it to the Mills Bomb unlock discussed?

Anyway why mechanized revamp ? I was 100% sure they will chose rifle and armor company. Armor looks good now maybe nothing radical but i like it but what about rifle company this commander need some love.

If Brits are getting snares, I think the AEC should be a lot less potent or removed altogether. Light vehicles would be obsolete vs Brits now. So many ways for Brits to kill lights. And the potential of 210mp able to take on tanks single handedly: 2piats + snare. Brit AT power is the best in the game, it just needs a snare. Pak clone, rabid dog AEC won't allow any overextending with axis lights, fast cromwells, stock comets with more armor than a panther, cheap piats that penetrate more than zooks, etc. Now it has a snare. Something needs to give.

On the other hand I'm against stock puma for Ost. I'm against faction symmetry. After the AI nerf to all lights, Ost doesn't struggle as much vs lights and has already the neccessary tools, cheaper schrecks, pak lower pop cap, 222 buff.

HATE the stormtrooper changes. Just give cheaper Stg like 75-80 munis. Pgrens with ambush doctrine beats the living shit out of mp40 storms. Same price but gets mp44 and sprint and ambush bonus. I'd rather use agrens for mp40 troops.

If axis pumas aren't making allied lights obsolete, then inferior AEC will not make make any axis light obsolete with support.

Was tying it to the Mills Bomb unlock discussed?

Yup, it was the option I initially supported. Others put forth the argument that there wasn't a need to tie it to a sidegrade, and I'm inclined to agree at this point.

People seem to be forgeting that these snares are going to be going onto what becomes a 5 man squad, which often carries PIATs. Snares and AT combo on the same durable unit is deadly. Also the notes said nothing about taking away the AT gun accuracy buff vs lights. If that stays WITH snares that's overkill.

I brought up the same concerns. Ultimately though, I felt that there was no reason to not at least test this option.

How about making it an optional upgrade package, which would fill their weapon slots when picked.

People seem to be forgeting that these snares are going to be going onto what becomes a 5 man squad, which often carries PIATs. Snares and AT combo on the same durable unit is deadly. Also the notes said nothing about taking away the AT gun accuracy buff vs lights. If that stays WITH snares that's overkill.

How is this different from vet 1 rifles with zooks? or PTRS penals? And there's a munition investment required on top. Being snared + in proximity of AT troops is practically death already, and when supported by an ATG it definitely should be.

Out of all the changes the revamp brings, this is probably the one that makes the most sense. The rest of it just seems like changing things for the sake of shaking up the meta, which ironically is going to give you all a lot to come to the balance forums to "discuss" about for quite some time. It's funny, everyone wants a balanced game, but they also feel that the game needs these redesigns in order for that to happen. I just don't get it.

Was tying it to the Mills Bomb unlock discussed?

Yes, this was discussed and is still on the table.

The rationale for trialing these two changes for the Brits is as follows.

1) People are saying Brits are struggling in certain modes. The latest balance patch altered some units that Brits were leaning on. This is born out in data.

2) Sentiment suggests Brits in particular struggle with light vehicles due to lack of snare.

3) We don't want to just give tommies a snare. IMO that would be a lazy change that ruins asymmetry. It would also tip the scale in the other direction, making Brits too potent against light vehicles, considering the other anti LV compensations in their arsenal.

4) Hopefully some combination of Sapper snares, Tommy light AT mines, in addition to the pre-existing compensations (aec shot, sniper, 6 pounder bonus) will amount to giving the Brits similar early-game anti-vehicle capability relative to the other factions. We just need to find that sweet spot.

The great thing about this test phase is we can make sure we get this right, because as others have pointed out, it is a potentially big change for the game. If it is too oppressive, maybe we make it require nade tech as you say. Another option is locking out piats for squads with the snare, and vis versa. Maybe only one of the new snare & mine changes is necessary.

We're definitely looking for feedback on this in particular, so all thoughts welcome, especially if peeps have played the mod.

Yes, this was discussed and is still on the table.

The rationale for trialing these two changes for the Brits is as follows.

1) People are saying Brits are struggling in certain modes. The latest balance patch altered some units that Brits were relying on. This is born out in data.

2) Sentiment suggests Brits in particular struggle with light vehicles due to lack of snare.

3) We don't want to just give tommies a snare. IMO that would be a lazy change that ruins asymmetry. It would also tip the scale in the other direction, making Brits too potent against light vehicles considering the other anti LV compensations Brits have in their arsenal.

4) Hopefully some combination of Sapper snares, Tommy light AT mines, in addition to the pre-existing compensations (aec shot, sniper, 6 pounder bonus) will amount to giving the Brits similar early-game anti-vehicle capability relative to the other factions. We just need to find that sweet spot.

The great thing about this test phase is we can make sure we get this right, because as others have pointed out, it is a potentially big change for the game. If it is too oppressive, maybe we make it require nade tech as you say. Another option is locking out piats for squads with the snare, and vis versa. Maybe only one of the new snare & mine changes is necessary.

We're definitely looking for feedback on this in particular, so all thoughts welcome, especially if peeps have played the mod.

I am glad that you guys are listening to the community, and are acting upon worries.

However there was another thing which is highly debated for the Brits, the mortar pit, and it was even teased by you guys that a mobile mortar team would be somehow added to the Brits, or was it just for this new commander that's going to be made around Christmas?

Edit: To further specify my question, is there any consideration of fixing the issue the British have with their currently immobile indirect fire option and if not why, because of the sake of symmetry or something? I'm just genuinely wondering.

I am glad that you guys are listening to the community, and are acting upon worries.

However there was another thing which is highly debated for the Brits, the mortar pit, and it was even teased by you guys that a mobile mortar team would be somehow added to the Brits, or was it just for this new commander that's going to be made around Christmas?

Edit: To further specify my question, is there any consideration of fixing the issue the British have with their currently immobile indirect fire option and if not why, because of the sake of symmetry or something? I'm just genuinely wondering.

I hear what you're saying. Two things on the general topic.

Mobile mortar (usf mortar) was something I suggested as a possibility for the new Brit doctrine. It definitely still is if people want it, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Giving Brits a normal mortar as stock is a massive change. Some people would be for it, but the ramifications would be major IMO. Similarly, any meaningful changes to the Mortar Pit, represents a significant task with major consequences.

Ultimately, this update isn't a full-on balance patch. The scope is to rework ten commanders, and improve the game through that work. We've been able to step slightly outside the confines of this scope with the Brit mine + snare, and the Puma BP2 lock, because those are glaring issues, which hopefully have low impact solutions (unlike some other items).

Hope this makes some sense!

It's great to see Relic involved at every step and getting very hands on. I thought this patch was happening entirely from the community, with Relic's involvement only being that of officially adding the finished version to the game.
So it's good to know Relic are still very involved in this game.

Brits will be to strong with the new abiltys to dmg engine from armor.
Why?
Because they have with the most Strongest AT Option ingame...has superior infantery and great emplacements which can swomp a ton of dmg and wipe squads in sec...even on retreat you can lose a 5model sqaud.

Give them mines and and HEAT will be end in super easy game vs all targets. Want save an whole area? Get a super cheap 30 fuel unit. Wanna overrun german lines? Get lmg blobs, new croc and a FF.

You have a easy job.
.i testet it. Play this mod and find out how easy it is now.

Tell me one(!!!) Axis infantery which can get faust AND schrecks per default.

Not one have it. You will argue axis have better tanks. Wrong. It isnt 2016 anymore. It is late 2018 where german armor is now weaker than allie Counterparts.

Just thinking about it, I think a good buff to the up agrens is to give it camo at vet1 or 2 and leave the stormtroopers alone except cheaper stgs.

I hear what you're saying. Two things on the general topic.

Mobile mortar (usf mortar) was something I suggested as a possibility for the new Brit doctrine. It definitely still is if people want it, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Giving Brits a normal mortar as stock is a massive change. Some people would be for it, but the ramifications would be major IMO. Similarly, any meaningful changes to the Mortar Pit, represents a significant task with major consequences.

Ultimately, this update isn't a full-on balance patch. The scope is to rework ten commanders, and improve the game through that work. We've been able to step slightly outside the confines of this scope with the Brit mine + snare, and the Puma BP2 lock, because those are glaring issues, which hopefully have low impact solutions (unlike some other items).

Hope this makes some sense!

Thank you for your answer, I was hoping that something like what happened in the USF's case during the UKF Alpha and there was a mobile mortar added by default but I guess not.

Still tho, better than us just wondering why.