Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

If you follow the vehicle to the edge of the map the amount of resources returned very briefly shows up like an XP counter when your units kill something.

I imagine that you get the resources once the unit safely arrives off the map rather than instantly. If not, this is definitely prone to abuse as well.

Something else to take into consideration is that I don't believe I got any munitions back for recalling my WC-51 that was Vet 2 and upgraded. Just appeared to be 150mp.

I'm not crazy about the idea of upgrading the M3 to a M-21. If I built the M3 in the first place, it was likely because I wanted a rolling reinforcement point or transportation for units (typically units with bazookas). The M-21 on the other hand serves a completely different purpose. If I wanted a M-21 in the first place, I would be really annoyed with having to upgrade the M3 to get it.

At this point, I think the best way forward to make this commander more attractive is outright replacing the two abilities that are real juicy. There is a good foundation here (unlike Armor Company) but it's missing something that rounds it out.

Perhaps if Assault Engineers are buffed to make them worthwhile, they could outright replace one of the current abilities in this doctrine. Two birds with one stone there, a good solid unit for Armor Company and Mechanized Company, and they fit the theme of both of them exceptionally well.

I want to look at Assault Engineers the way I look at I&R Pathfinders, Rangers, Paratroopers, etc. Those are awesome units that add real value to a doctrine. I really think they should be roughly on par with Sturmpioneers considering the cost is the same, their intended purpose is pretty much the same, even the name is similar.

Edit: Just wanted to be clear about what I'm advocating in this post. Remove withdraw and refit from the doctrine entirely. Add Assault Engineers in it's place. Replace Assault Engineers with standard Vehicle Crew in the M3 halftrack. It only makes sense to do it this way so that the M3 ability works more seamlessly, and you get real access to the Assault Engineers that were intended to be in this doctrine from the get go. This of course hinges on the Assault Engineers being tuned to become a truly desirable unit worth the asking price.

Just 2 things -

1. Ass Engies are still not worthwhile right now as other people have currently noted so they require additional tweaking, so putting them in yet another doctrine is downright madness at the moment.

2. I don't know where you based your assumption that these guys belong in vehicle based commanders at all, if you ask me they made a hell of a lot more sense in Ardennes Assault, where the Mechanized company there (Baker) also has Cav Rifles coming in with an M3 Halftrack as their unique infantry unit which anybody who played with them will tell you that they are blatantly superior to the AE, being that they are close quarter combat specialists in the form of Riflemen armed with Thompsons and having different abilities fitted for such cases.

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I'm not crazy about the idea of upgrading the M3 to a M-21. If I built the M3 in the first place, it was likely because I wanted a rolling reinforcement point or transportation for units (typically units with bazookas). The M-21 on the other hand serves a completely different purpose. If I wanted a M-21 in the first place, I would be really annoyed with having to upgrade the M3 to get it.
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And none forces to refit you M-3 on the other hand an M-3 is difficult to use in late where there are allot of AT while an M-21 is easier to useful in the late game.

The idea behind the commander is that one can invest heavily on light vehicles and then replace them vehicles as the game progress and all that is possible with "refit and refuel". I personally find the idea interesting but the current implementation problematic.

And none forces to refit you M-3 on the other hand an M-3 is difficult to use in late where there are allot of AT while an M-21 is easier to useful in the late game.

The idea behind the commander is that one can invest heavily on light vehicles and then replace them vehicles as the game progress and all that is possible with "refit and refuel". I personally find the idea interesting but the current implementation problematic.

I agree with you. The idea is a cool one, and would make for a good commander if the implementation was spot on. However, I think making the idea work within the scope of this patch is likely impossible. That's why I am advocating for different abilities entirely. Would be a lot easier to just swap something out than completely rework multiple units and abilities.

Just 2 things -

1. Ass Engies are still not worthwhile right now as other people have currently noted so they require additional tweaking, so putting them in yet another doctrine is downright madness at the moment.

2. I don't know where you based your assumption that these guys belong in vehicle based commanders at all, if you ask me they made a hell of a lot more sense in Ardennes Assault, where the Mechanized company there (Baker) also has Cav Rifles coming in with an M3 Halftrack as their unique infantry unit which anybody who played with them will tell you that they are blatantly superior to the AE, being that they are close quarter combat specialists in the form of Riflemen armed with Thompsons and having different abilities fitted for such cases.

I agree that the assault engineers are currently not up to snuff. They would need to be brought up to roughly the same level as Sturmpioneers in order for me to consider spending that much on them, because that is what I would expect the combat capabilities of a 300mp or so unit to be. You are right that it does not make sense to add them if they are not tuned further. With the additional tuning, I think they could be a great unit.

I based my idea that they belong in the doctrine on the fact that they have been there from the beginning. Also, they're able to repair, and have the critical repair ability that is also very useful. Not only that, but I'll take a flamethrower as USF just about anywhere I can get it.

The Cav Rifles were indeed excellent. I'd love to have them in this commander, but I think they are concerned about the balance implications. If it were on the table as a possibility, I would advocate for the addition of Cav Rifles to the M3 halftrack. I am operating under the assumption that this option is not on the table. The second best thing, in my opinion, would be Assault Engineers that were roughly equivalent to Sturmpioneers with different weapons/abilities. I think that would be almost as good.

I agree that the assault engineers are currently not up to snuff...

Assault engineers could be moved to CP 1 and have price lowered down to around 240. Then they could have 2 upgrades available to them, flamers or 2 Thompson +1 entity and WP grenade (maybe requiring an officer).

That would allow either to be anti garrison unit or a CQC unit.

Hey all,

Thanks for keeping the discussion moving!

Mod 1.3 is now live, and you can see the latest changes at the bottom of this page: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245307/commander-revamp-preview-changelog#latest

Andy

The new changes look pretty neat!

Mechanized seems quite ability heavy now though, what with having three call-ins in one ability. Maybe shift one of its abilities to Armor to replace Elite Crews?

Armor looks fairly atractive now, I suppose a cost reduction and Thompson reduction will work well, as you'd mainly use it to boost the Crew's rate of repair and experience gain.

Cavalry Riflemen finally in the game too!

>Air Resupply Operation

-Vickers HMG replaced by M1 81mm Mortar; same version used by the USF.

Oh lol, this will be the next meta commander forever now... mortars, croc and arty support

You need seriously consider adding mortar to other commander(s) now or this will turn into Special Weapons Regiment v2

Regarding NKVD, whats the point in decreasing squad RA? Also why make these underwhelming abilities Commisar has cost zero munitions? Soviets are a munition hoarding faction, instead of making them zero cost you can turn them into AoE buff and increase their costs by 3 or so times.

Also - completely useless m42 is still there, taking a valuable slot for something useful for Urban Defence, you cant seriously justify "AT" gun that has no scaling into midgame let alone endgame for a faction that already has a great non-doc AT gun available

Hey all,

Thanks for keeping the discussion moving!

Mod 1.3 is now live, and you can see the latest changes at the bottom of this page: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245307/commander-revamp-preview-changelog#latest

Andy

Praise Relic Jesus, thank you for listening to us.

The new changes look pretty neat!

Mechanized seems quite ability heavy now though, what with having three call-ins in one ability. Maybe shift one of its abilities to Armor to replace Elite Crews?

I think there is room to fit the M8 Greyhound in there somewhere as well lol.

>Air Resupply Operation

-Vickers HMG replaced by M1 81mm Mortar; same version used by the USF.

Oh lol, this will be the next meta commander forever now... mortars, croc and arty support

You need seriously consider adding mortar to other commander(s) now or this will turn into Special Weapons Regiment v2

Regarding NKVD, whats the point in decreasing squad RA? Also why make these underwhelming abilities Commisar has cost zero munitions? Soviets are a munition hoarding faction, instead of making them zero cost you can turn them into AoE buff and increase their costs by 3 or so times.

Also - completely useless m42 is still there, taking a valuable slot for something useful for Urban Defence, you cant seriously justify "AT" gun that has no scaling into midgame let alone endgame for a faction that already has a great non-doc AT gun available

Yeah, Royal Arty can probably also have a mortar team added to it instead of like, early warning for example.

Seriously though - other factions have their worthless/meme abilties pruned and replaced like happened with Raid on Mechanized, instead of useless stuff you gave doctrine elite infantry, why Soviet commanders exception to this? m42 is legit less useful than upgrading Penal squad with PTRS, except PTRS Penals will actually scale while m42 will remain nothing but a drain on your resources past 5 minutes of game

I think there is room to fit the M8 Greyhound in there somewhere as well lol.

Mechanized as is has,

• WC51
  
• Mark Target (via WC51)
  
• 155mm Artillery (via WC51)
  
• M3 Haltrack
  
• Assault Engineers (via M3 Halftrack)
  
• M3 Mortar Halftrack
  
• Cavalry Riflemen
  
• Combined Arms
  
• Withdraw and Refit
  
• 76mm Sherman
  

That's overkill in my opinion: pretty much two commanders at once.

Praise Relic Jesus, thank you for listening to us.

Major props to you for suggesting putting a mortar in the airdrop. Super cool idea.

Mechanized as is has,

• WC51
  
• Mark Target (via WC51)
  
• 155mm Artillery (via WC51)
  
• M3 Haltrack
  
• Assault Engineers (via M3 Halftrack)
  
• M3 Mortar Halftrack
  
• Cavalry Riflemen
  
• Combined Arms
  
• Withdraw and Refit
  
• 76mm Sherman
  

That's overkill in my opinion: pretty much two commanders at once.

What can I say, everything is bigger and better in America lol.

Major props to you for suggesting putting a mortar in the airdrop. Super cool idea.

Yeah thanks, but I actually picked up the idea from my suggested American Lend-lease commander for the Brits. Still tho, it's them that listened and implemented it.

As mentioned a couple of times, Brits having the possibility of a portable mortar unit is nice.

USF Mechanized might be a bit too much now

Imagine my surprise upon reading that Cavalry Riflemen are a thing now. Can't wait to try them out! The other faction's changes are looking pretty good too. Will report back with my feedback.

Adding cavalry riflemen to Mechanized Company has made that commander really well rounded. Now the US have a very solid commander.
Great job!

Alright so after testing out the even more improved Mech Company -

As much as I love the mini Army this commander has become it probably is a bit too much.

What I suggest is:

Leave the WC-51 as a call in unit instead of it being in the HQ.
Combine Cav Rifles and the M3 to make a combat group again.
Keep the M21 Mortar Halftrack in the place of Redraw and Refit.
Keep Combined Arms.

The 76mm Sherman needs to be fixed or replaced by an E8, as much as I love it it's simply broken and very abusable right now, and as much as Vipper's idea of replacing it with the M10 makes sense Combined Arms's potential would be largely wasted on a combination of Cav Rifles in M3 HTs and M10s in my opinion.

As far as the UKF goes -

As someone else already said, it's probably a good idea to also give a mortar to Royal Artillery in the place of Early Warning, either a mobile mortar section or the M21 Mortar Halftrack from the USF. As I said it's a 30 munition max hax ability in a doctrine already filled with munition based abilities plus, at least one of your teammates will be able to provide Recon somehow in team games, in which this commander will probably be chosen more often than not anyhow.

Related to Tac Support, I would like to offer my services of photo editing and create or at least edit the Air Supply Operation's icon and replace the MG icon with a Mortar one, and replace the Forward Artillery post's icon to also include the Forward Assembly, somehow.

I just sadly need somebody to provide me with the icons since I have never actually extracted an SGA file so I have no idea how to do it, or at least have forgotten how to do it.

Edit: Suggestion for Armor Company - if the M10 and 105 Sherman are kept in the doctrine they can be combined, in the same manner as Mech Company's Reserve Armor, to free up a slot for something like the M8 Greyhound which can be tweaked a little to make it worthwhile which would also help out Recon Company a bit I guess. Call it nostalgia but I think this unit could see the light of day a bit more than currently.

Edit2: I also noticed that my Ambulance instantly vanished when it was locked down and I used Redraw and Refit (for the first time in my life) on it so it's probably worth a look lol.

NKVD is better now that scorched earth is instant, and the Commissar squad feels more useful and worthwhile, if the commander had a KV1 it would be a lot more viable. At the moment it feels like it would only get used in 3vs3 and 4vs4s, with the KV8 being used against blobs.

With a KV1 it would be viable in 1vs1 and a lot more attractive overall.


Now that Jaegars have camo by default is their vet 1 bonus being changed?

Really great job with the patch mod so far, it's going from strength to strength!

Eyeballing those 1.3 changes, they mostly look promising, though I have some of my doubts. For example, as cool as it is to see all of those units in Mechanized Company, even if it feels like one big hodgepodge.

Also - completely useless m42 is still there, taking a valuable slot for something useful for Urban Defence, you cant seriously justify "AT" gun that has no scaling into midgame let alone endgame for a faction that already has a great non-doc AT gun available

I disagree. This revamp patch is perfect opportunity to make that little AT Gun into something useful, which would affect not only Urban Defense but also Defensive Tactics. I think it should get the same treatment as WC-51, where instead of raw damage it could bring utility to the late game. It already has that vet 1 thing, where hit units stay visible for a couple of seconds, but it could get some other supporting abilities. Maybe that crew-blinding ability that Stuart has?