Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Give Defensive Doctrine Half-track AT mines instead of the StuG, or perhaps a 251/17 flak ht from OKW. I think there are many more thematic replacements for the StuG E. Even Smoke bombs might be more thematic.

I was just thinking- if Sappers end up with their snares, Tank Hunter Sections should get their upgrades back

Those should've never been taken away. It's was reaction to everyone spamming Special Weapons and reason everyone did this because it only viable way to stop light vehicle abuse. Now that sappers have snares there is next to no reason to get dank hunters in first place, especially after nerf

I thought all bunkers and repair stations didn't cost pop at all.

Since 1.6 german concrete Bunker cost 3pop. I like it, because german MG42 needs 6pop, so its ok. But then also soviet repair stations should need 2pop e.g.

Those should've never been taken away. It's was reaction to everyone spamming Special Weapons and reason everyone did this because it only viable way to stop light vehicle abuse. Now that sappers have snares there is next to no reason to get dank hunters in first place, especially after nerf

Definitely. Otherwise you might as well double PIAT a Sapper squad instead.

Since 1.6 german concrete Bunker cost 3pop. I like it, because german MG42 needs 6pop, so its ok. But then also soviet repair stations should need 2pop e.g.

Nope

Since 1.6 german concrete Bunker cost 3pop. I like it, because german MG42 needs 6pop, so its ok. But then also soviet repair stations should need 2pop e.g.

No they dont. They dont have HP of panther nor could they can be upgraded with MGs
Repair station can be destroyed by infantry shooting at them or any sort of indirect, meanwhile bunker can eat a demo or satchel and still survive, why did you even compare repair station to that?

No they dont. They dont have HP of panther nor could they can be upgraded with MGs
Repair station can be destroyed by infantry shooting at them or any sort of indirect, meanwhile bunker can eat a demo or satchel and still survive, why did you even compare repair station to that?

Because if bunker gets a repairstation both have same job, repairing. One is more expensive, on is cheap. One has armor, one has no armor. But that is because of the price, not because of its "maybe"
functions. And it is only fair, if soviet repairstations get a little nerf too, by 2 or 1 pop-cap. (Also german MG-bunkers can be nerfed by 1 pop-cap, e.g. normal MG42 has a Pop of 6).

Nope

Because you like blobbing tanks without any handycap? Sure, I also like spaming MG-bunkers, but I am man enough that I want some pop for it too. Stop thinking as fan-boy.

The Pak 43's survivability should be somehow improved in my opinion not just for this commander but for all others as well because right now it's just wasting a commander slot while only being effective only around 20-30% of the time if not less.

I mean even the AI is not dumb enough to leave it alone, they nuke it with everything they got once they find it.

The PaK 43 is very effective on maps if placed in a good spot and its able to cover the whole point, however the fact it (and any other AT for this matter; except the 17 pounder) doesn't self defend or self turn to face any vehicles that just drive around it and start shooting it from the back is a hassle at times.

The 17 pounder in this case has that self-turning ability which makes less micro management on your overhead when having to go through combat with three different battlezones. What always makes me both laugh and yell is how the T-34 drives around the PaK43 and then just starts shooting it and it sits there. Braindead (except for the two guys with rifles shooting the tank).

I've found a bit more success with the 17 pounder tho, largely thanks to it's emplacement. My only problem is that it's big and it takes up my population cap and is generally just useless once the fighting has moved on and is nowhere near the gun, I have no idea why they removed the simple "Delete" button, at least give it a self-destruct ability like the OKW trucks before.

I love the "All Units Mod" as it has the self-destruct ability on various things and it can help reallocate pop cap if needed. Another big thing I would love to see ALL factions get access to is the "Withdraw from Battle" (basically the Refit ability but effects all forces) Ability, maybe it could be used on redundant emplacements that use up Pop Cap and can help remove them instantly like Self-Destruct OR maybe a new ability could be added to emplacements called, "Deconstruct" which removes the building and forces its units to retreat from the battlefield and off the map?

Another idea that could be easily put in is having emplacements be decrewed like vehicles so you can get back your pop cap OR help an ally if they have the pop cap available and need the Pak 43 (thus opening up more 2v2 or up teamplay).

Other thing… it seems that this new patch will make commander-abilities even more confusing.


Why not give Osttruppen the ability for sand-bags and wire without "trench-ability". Then "trench" can be replaced by an other ability. There are only two commanders with trenches, Osttruppen and Community-Defence.

Community-Defence could become:
-Osttruppen
-Ostwall (concrete Bunkers and tank-traps)
-StuG E
-Hull-Down
-Sector-Artillery

With hull-down StuG E becomes a more defensive option. And I am no fan of PaK43 in that commanders, hull-down fits better.

Osttruppen could become:
-Osttruppen
-Artillery-Officer
-Supply
-Commando-Panzer 4
-Gustav

Because there are only two commanders with trench and bouth have Osttruppen the commander-ability is useless. Grenadiers can live without sand-bags if there are also Osttruppen.

-> Also that would boost Osttruppen on other Abilitys, like Relief-Infantry. With sand-bags and wire they become an usefull unit.

Why not give Osttruppen the ability for sand-bags and wire without "trench-ability". Then "trench" can be replaced by an other ability. There are only two commanders with trenches, Osttruppen and Community-Defence.

Community-Defence could become:
-Osttruppen
-Ostwall (concrete Bunkers and tank-traps)
-StuG E
-Hull-Down
-Sector-Artillery

I was thinking why not overhaul the entire commander and give it a proper name rather than Defensive (Community); it just seems really lacking.

It could be called Hastened Fortifications Doctrine that features;
-Osttruppen
-Widerstreit's Ostwall Idea (features concrete bunkers that are a bit pricier than normal bunkers but have more HP and some Armor [replaces the normal bunker]; tank-traps and OKW's reinforced barbed wire [replaces normal barbed wire] and the Trench-Ability)
-StuG Ausf. E
-PaK 43 (that needs a reworking of its own)
-The New Sector Artillery

As much as I love the PaK 43; I really does need a rework. In some of the TOW missions that are co-op playable, such as Case Blue - Assault on Voronezh; it can be extremely powerful in choke points and can be when properly placed a great asset, but it needs fixing.

Because there are only two commanders with trench and bouth have Osttruppen the commander-ability is useless. Grenadiers can live without sand-bags if there are also Osttruppen.

-> Also that would boost Osttruppen on other Abilitys, like Relief-Infantry. With sand-bags and wire they become an usefull unit.

I would love to have the Osttruppen fill in as rapid response engineers as well as relief-infantry.

I was just thinking- if Sappers end up with their snares, Tank Hunter Sections should get their upgrades back

Agreed, with the new snares the only things they got going for them are their Boys AT Rifles and vehicle detection.

Give Defensive Doctrine Half-track AT mines instead of the StuG, or perhaps a 251/17 flak ht from OKW. I think there are many more thematic replacements for the StuG E. Even Smoke bombs might be more thematic.

Command Panzer IV fits in the most if you ask me.

The PaK 43 is very effective on maps if placed in a good spot and its able to cover the whole point, however the fact it (and any other AT for this matter; except the 17 pounder) doesn't self defend or self turn to face any vehicles that just drive around it and start shooting it from the back is a hassle at times.

The 17 pounder in this case has that self-turning ability which makes less micro management on your overhead when having to go through combat with three different battlezones. What always makes me both laugh and yell is how the T-34 drives around the PaK43 and then just starts shooting it and it sits there. Braindead (except for the two guys with rifles shooting the tank).




I love the "All Units Mod" as it has the self-destruct ability on various things and it can help reallocate pop cap if needed. Another big thing I would love to see ALL factions get access to is the "Withdraw from Battle" (basically the Refit ability but effects all forces) Ability, maybe it could be used on redundant emplacements that use up Pop Cap and can help remove them instantly like Self-Destruct OR maybe a new ability could be added to emplacements called, "Deconstruct" which removes the building and forces its units to retreat from the battlefield and off the map?

Another idea that could be easily put in is having emplacements be decrewed like vehicles so you can get back your pop cap OR help an ally if they have the pop cap available and need the Pak 43 (thus opening up more 2v2 or up teamplay).

You mean if placed behind a shotblocker, something which is not always available. That's why I suggested that the 17 pounder emplacement become an upgrade for it, effectively transforming it into a German 17 pounder but losing it's shooting through objects ability for added survivability. It's giving the player a choice on how to use the unit, especially in an Urban environment, but on non city maps going for the emplacement upgrade would be a no-brainer I think.

And yes, a simple delete/self-destruct would suffice, I think decrew has been discussed before and it ended up as something that could and probably will be quite abused, similar to how people are abusing USF's pop cap with their vehicle crews dismounting.

Other thing… it seems that this new patch will make commander-abilities even more confusing.


Why not give Osttruppen the ability for sand-bags and wire without "trench-ability". Then "trench" can be replaced by an other ability. There are only two commanders with trenches, Osttruppen and Community-Defence.

Community-Defence could become:
-Osttruppen
-Ostwall (concrete Bunkers and tank-traps)
-StuG E
-Hull-Down
-Sector-Artillery

With hull-down StuG E becomes a more defensive option. And I am no fan of PaK43 in that commanders, hull-down fits better.

Osttruppen could become:
-Osttruppen
-Artillery-Officer
-Supply
-Commando-Panzer 4
-Gustav

Because there are only two commanders with trench and bouth have Osttruppen the commander-ability is useless. Grenadiers can live without sand-bags if there are also Osttruppen.

-> Also that would boost Osttruppen on other Abilitys, like Relief-Infantry. With sand-bags and wire they become an usefull unit.

Sounds like a good idea but I'd swap the StuG E and Command Panzer IV. Osttruppen already have an "officer " unit but can use an infantry support tank while defensive could use the Defensive boosting CPIV instead, they just fit thematically more. But other than that I am fine with your ideas.

You mean if placed behind a shotblocker, something which is not always available. That's why I suggested that the 17 pounder emplacement become an upgrade for it, effectively transforming it into a German 17 pounder but losing it's shooting through objects ability for added survivability. It's giving the player a choice on how to use the unit, especially in an Urban environment, but on non city maps going for the emplacement upgrade would be a no-brainer I think.

To be honest, I love the idea of giving it the upgrade to make it more like the 17 pounder, its own little emplacement structure and all that.

And yes, a simple delete/self-destruct would suffice, I think decrew has been discussed before and it ended up as something that could and probably will be quite abused, similar to how people are abusing USF's pop cap with their vehicle crews dismounting.

Yeah, I had a feeling it would be abused by people, it was just the idea though. -shrug-

I for one believe that Pak43 is fine as is. It's not supposed to survive a nuke. Soviets only have the IL-2 bombing run nuke in select commanders. It would be like Soviets asking for a ML-20 emplacement just because HE bombing run exists. If anything, the best way to go about this is to make the gun itself (not the crew) more durable to artillery/airstrikes so that the gun can be recrewed easily afterwards. I think Brit emplacements and their stupid brace should've never been a thing in the first place.

And a pet peeve that nobody would really care about anyway:Show Spoiler

...

Oh... yes. Put the StuG E to Osttruppen and Commando-Panzer-4 to Community-Defence is better. I was simply in love with the idea of StuG E in hull-down with extra range.


Community-Defense-Commander (Ostwall-Commander)
-Osttruppen (able to build sandbags, wire and light-bunkers)
-Heavy Fortifications (concrete-bunker, tank-traps maybe concrete )
-Commando-Panzer-4
-PaK43 ***
-Sector-Artillery


***Maybe "hull-down" instead of PaK43? In my opinion it overperforms in that commander. Hull-down is a decent ability and it doesn't eats pop-cap. With tank-traps also StuG becomes usefull in hull-down.


Osttruppen-Commander
-Osttruppen (able to build sandbags, wire and light-bunkers)
-Artillery-Officer
-Supply
-StuG E
-Gustav


StuG E should lose the critical-shot-ability. As alternative ability it should get a hollow-charge-burst with 3 shots. Used as Brummbär's bunker-burst with 60range, it performs like old leIG18 hollow-charge. Small aoe, but acceptable pen and damage (maybe like Panzerschreck or like Piat).



Edit:

-Osttruppen (able to build sandbags, wire and light-bunkers) infects also relief-infantry and Puma-Osttruppen.

Those should've never been taken away. It's was reaction to everyone spamming Special Weapons and reason everyone did this because it only viable way to stop light vehicle abuse. Now that sappers have snares there is next to no reason to get dank hunters in first place, especially after nerf

Their heart was in the right place trying to diversify meta with commando regiment buff and special weapons nerfs.

But like you say the doctrine wasn't used because it was OP, it was used because brits were UP and it patched a hole. I think the vickers-k from the HT should have pre-bren gun nerf stats, then it would give you a reason to build one and get vickers after teching weapon racks. It's just an overpriced halftrack otherwise (40f is a lot when you no longer get piats or vickers without 15f rack tech, USF get doctrinal LMG for free remember. Same with soviet PPSH upgrade).

Just tested the British Artillery Commander and especially the Valentine feels still weak, in my opinion in need one further buff either better ai capabilities, come at 4 cp as an alternative to the AEC, become cheaper -> 60 fuel or get better vetrancy bonuses like faster firing and better accuracy.

Valentine had a major buff to its AI with x150% damage buff while keeping AOE the same.

In addition its armor is allot higher than the AEC, CP 4 for light/medium tank is way to early.

Osttruppen (able to build sandbags, wire and light-bunkers) infects also relief-infantry and Puma-Osttruppen.

About that. Why doesn't the Osttruppen Squad do not have this universally for building sandbags at least nor a normal hand grenade ability? Its just interesting they can get an LMG42 and Panzerfausts but no normal potato masher or the ability to make sandbags?

Valentine had a major buff to its AI with x150% damage buff while keeping AOE the same.

In addition its armor is allot higher than the AEC, CP 4 for light/medium tank is way to early.

Meanwhile the t70 is laughing.

Armor way higher than the AEC isn’t saying much. That’s like saying “moving accuracy way better than ostruppen” lol. There’s also effectively almost no difference as almost anything on the axis side that isn’t small arms will penetrate both vehicles 100% of the time.

I think by 4cp counters are definitely on the field and it wouldn’t need be an unreasonable time for it to come out, and stuff like the luchs, aec, t70 and Stuart are all on the field by 3-4 cp but 5cp is still probably better timing. I really do think it’s fairly comparable to the t70 in terms of role and type of vehicle (they even have the same recon mode now).

i think the valentine is performing ok atm. a really nice unnoticed perk about it is that it actually needs 2 fausts to engine damage, unlike every other light vehicle.

i think the valentine is performing ok atm. a really nice unnoticed perk about it is that it actually needs 2 fausts to engine damage, unlike every other light vehicle.

That is very useful.