Soviet Team Games

Is it just me or is lelic biased towards soviets all the time? I thought the last few patches were supposed to balance out team games but somehow they just got far far worse. 3v3 especially is a shitshow now if you want to play anything than UKF I guess (because ironically they have the tools). Soviets are god awful and steaming pile of garbage with bad design. Why do Maxims have the same price of a mg-42 from t0? Why do soviets start with lower resources than any other faction while having to tech up ? Why are cons weaker than Volks while only having 10 mp difference and no upgrades without commanders? OKW also dominates soviet early game unless you cheese with Clowncar+ flamer but it won't give you enough advantage because OKW will just get snares in time or Sturmpios of balance will destroy them. If you go for cons goodluck fighting superior volks+Sturms. Against ostheer you get Grens that are equal or better than Cons once again with atleast some MP drain and lower size, however Mg-42 remains an unbalanced mess. As soviets I have to pick between trash cons and a maxim or penals. Maxim again being around the same cost while being far inferior after all the nerfs done to this and bad vet. Penals are made out of paper now aswell but atleast they are okay, however it locks you out of anything in t2 and u might aswell play USF instead.

And Soviet t4 is even worse. Su-85 has no redeeming qualities over Firefly or Jackson except some sight bonus if u want to crawl and get rushed due to the delays do it now. T-34 is awful and nerfed last patches too, why is it even in t4? its Useless outside of it's ram ability. T-34/85 is a dice roll and I'd rather have Pz.iv. How about their heavies? Kv-1 is more expensive and tankier t-34 but its okay. IS-2? a total joke. Doctrinal and limited in 1, inaccurate. Lower HP than KT. KT being broken and game winning atm in 3v3's. Katyusha was nerfed too and it is so inaccurate firing even when firing from point blank range. Once again, OStheer gets far superior Panzerwerfer with armor/far better accuracy. ISU-152 also being a joke. Bad damage, its supposed to be a 152 boomstick that blew off Tiger turrets. Historical realism aside it is awful. Even with HE shells it cannot wipe and hit anything unless youre lucky. For its cost it has awful performance and again limited to 1. Why? Meanwhile Axis has Superior jagd and elephant. Ele being able to kill infantry now it seems. And Kv-2? Lmao. Doctrinal and trash. I don't even wanna talk about it. Why did Brummbär get buffs last patch and now being a monster while Kv-2 sits in a doctrine thats forgotten being absolute poopoo with higher cost and 14cp requirement?
Soviet snipers nerfed too. Nerfs after nerfs to Soviets all patches. Oh and 120mm.PPSh cons. When Will soviets get something in return or buffs? They're really underperforming at the moment. The design doesn't work for 3v3's or higher. And I do know the balance isn't centered around this but Relic said they would look into it and change things around to fix it but they just managed to make it much worse.

Teamgames for axis still remain to be "lose whole map? no matter, build a few fuelpoints and dominate with far superior units and same numbers". Playing as allied nations are a chore and if the game drags to late you know you lost unless you pull off some real clutch. It is not fun.

And let's not forget about the funniest thing of all, Veterancy of medium/heavy tanks. I'm sure that capping ability for my IS-2 will be super useful!

Tl;Dr Soviets are outclassed at every stage of the game except t70 (nvm pumas are balanced) and need some buffs or changes. I don't want direct nerfs to Axis though it might be justified but a lot of soviet arsenal feels really lacking and needs changes/buffs to be brought back in line with what they are facing

Soviets on their own don't have it easy in 4v4, however they do not lack strength in general. They are just not the faction to play as static frontline. Instead they are good for raiding and cutting the enemy off. Smoke and 3 Penals is all that it takes to destroy and OKW building. Vet3 Conscripts are very annoying. ISU will damage any tanks - regardless of armor. PTRS penals make any Panther and Jagdtiger stay away. Katyushas will wipe repair troops and forward bases. Guards are powerful long range units.
T1 is meta though.

Note that most of your complaints are towards OKW.

Relic forgot that soviets and ostheer existed when they made the WFA factions. OKW and USF are designed to face each other, but not the original factions.

OKW V SOV and USF v OST have been imbalanced and clunky since 2014. Partial and conflicting attempts to address this have somewhat improved this untenable scenario. But it sure isn't perfect.

That all said, please keep in mind that teamwork has far more influence and effect than faction design, especially for 3v3s and 4v4s.

KT being broken and game winning atm in 3v3's.

Stopped reading after this rofl

KT is an incredibly expensive pile of garbage atm.

Soviets on their own don't have it easy in 4v4, however they do not lack strength in general. They are just not the faction to play as static frontline. Instead they are good for raiding and cutting the enemy off. Smoke and 3 Penals is all that it takes to destroy and OKW building. Vet3 Conscripts are very annoying. ISU will damage any tanks - regardless of armor. PTRS penals make any Panther and Jagdtiger stay away. Katyushas will wipe repair troops and forward bases. Guards are powerful long range units.
T1 is meta though.

They kinda lack strength because of how the design is and how poor their later game units are, especially heavier vehicles. You are fighting and uphill battle most of the time as soviets in 3v3. The map design doesn't help this either but thats another thing. Team games also have too much fuel float especially with fuel caches for Axis. And as I already stated ISU dps is pretty pathetic and the accuracy leaves something to desire for.It's an assault gun okay fair enough not a dedicated TD, however it doesn't do either that good. Katyusha is pretty inaccurate unless you drive it minimum range and they nerfed the barrage time last patch? I think. Guards I have no problem with or cons per se, but soviets do leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth most of the time and later on you won't have the power to fight on unless you really dominated whole map early-mid game and preserved ur units well. Which is stupid, and in team games OKW/OST early game really isn't that weak either. And since t1 is meta it kinda just makes u wonder..why play cheap version of USF when I can go USF and lock in airborne with rocket strike and far better t4/best mainline infantry?

Note that most of your complaints are towards OKW.

Relic forgot that soviets and ostheer existed when they made the WFA factions. OKW and USF are designed to face each other, but not the original factions.

OKW V SOV and USF v OST have been imbalanced and clunky since 2014. Partial and conflicting attempts to address this have somewhat improved this untenable scenario. But it sure isn't perfect.

That all said, please keep in mind that teamwork has far more influence and effect than faction design, especially for 3v3s and 4v4s.

I am aware and its what makes it awful. And because so many of soviets equipment was nerfed due to axis outcry (cough maxims) its just sad really. OKW early isnt that big of an issue because penals still hold their own. However keep in mind ostheer and okw synergize far far better with each other than any allied factions. I don't play 4v4 but 3v3 though but still.

Stopped reading after this rofl

KT is an incredibly expensive pile of garbage atm.

Ah yes, the tank with IS-2 armor, more hp, Far better gun against AT and with a wiping capability is bad. I'd love if my fireflies didnt bounce mid range from it over half the time. Compare it to a DOCTRINAL 1 LIMIT IS-2 and say that again. IS-2 might cost less but it is awful even for its cost with awful veterancy and in general. Damage on AT is pathetic and GL hitting infantry . I'd rather have a KT even with it's higher cost than IS-2 any day thanks, wanna swap?

Main problem with soviets in team games is exactly same as USF - no matter which tech path you choose at start of game you're screwed.

If you go for support weapons your cons will be slaughtered by Volks and your support weapons will destroyed by stuka eventually.

If you go for Penals - OST teammate will force you into sniper to deal with MGs and PTRS package to protect said sniper from LV... which in turn makes Penals useless at fighting with Volksblob, which makes makes going T1 pointless in first place. You're basically screwed no matter what unless its full OKW or full OST team

Ah yes, the tank with IS-2 armor, more hp, Far better gun against AT and with a wiping capability is bad. I'd love if my fireflies didnt bounce mid range from it over half the time. Compare it to a DOCTRINAL 1 LIMIT IS-2 and say that again. IS-2 might cost less but it is awful even for its cost with awful veterancy and in general. Damage on AT is pathetic and GL hitting infantry . I'd rather have a KT even with it's higher cost than IS-2 any day thanks, wanna swap?

You conveniently left out the KT has no manoeuvrability whatsoever and the scatter on the gun is as bad as the IS-2's. The armor gets penned by cheap tank destroyers at max range reliably, shutting it down by good kiting play. It also costs about 1620 MP and 515 fuel in total to deploy in case you forgot.

You conveniently left out the KT has no manoeuvrability whatsoever and the scatter on the gun is as bad as the IS-2's. The armor gets penned by cheap tank destroyers at max range reliably, shutting it down by good kiting play. It also costs about 1620 MP and 515 fuel in total to deploy in case you forgot.

Because IS-2 maneuvaribility is godlike and the scatter on KT (if im not mistaken) is a lot better than the IS-2 but IS-2 winning on AOE damage. But who cares about AoE when u can't hit?

Same armor as IS-2(with again more HP) and germans have the better AT, stop with the bias ty. And are we now acting like the KT has nothing else with it than just the KT itself? Because it might work like that in the perfect world but ingame it doesn't. Pound for pound KT>>>>>>>>IS-2 and its far far more capable, meaning as a breakthrough tank and a heavy it actually does its job. Unlike the IS, IS is a glorified KV, KT can actually bring the hurt, IS-2 cannot. Also doesn't the KT load faster too? Because IS-2 RoF and Dps are awful. And again, the veterancy is horrible. Secure points for an IS-2 , I wonder who came up with that idea. And 160 damage on the boomstick is still hilarious and sad with its RoF.

And let's not act again like Soviets don't tech and just go for 1 IS-2 from the doctrine leaving you really really underhanded . Put IS-2 in t4 then.And it comes at 640 mp/240fuel? so it's no cheap one either from simply a doctrine. As I al ready said,I'll gladly swap IS-2 for KT anyday.
Oh also, Fireflies and SU-85 bounce from KT mid range all the time. Also Jpanzer > Su-85. I guess IS-2 gets locked out with some kiting play from a J too then? Or the various other AT options Axis gets that cuts through anything like hot knife through butter. Heck, I had 2 fireflies bounce 3 shells from a rammed Panther front plate from mid range yesterday

And all this while OKW has extremely capable mainline that scales a bit too well into lategame (and u got obers I guess), Best handheld AT in the game and so on.

I think you meant to say OKW sucks ass in teams games. If enemy makes MGs, you lose. If they make snipers, you lose.

OKW vs BRIT = instant loss if the brit player is sentient enough to form sentences by squirting air thru their meat holes. They have INF as good as yours. MGs to stop you. Universal Carrier to bleed you. AEC to smash your light vehicles. GG

Too bad brits do not have any indirect early/mid-game so you can btfo them again and again with stuka and leig parked near medHQ and brits have no way of actually responding to this.

In what universe OKW is underpowered against brits I have no idea, but clearly not in this one

I think you meant to say OKW sucks ass in teams games. If enemy makes MGs, you lose. If they make snipers, you lose.

OKW vs BRIT = instant loss if the brit player is sentient enough to form sentences by squirting air thru their meat holes. They have INF as good as yours. MGs to stop you. Universal Carrier to bleed you. AEC to smash your light vehicles. GG

Please, u can spam volks like soviets can spam conscripts (except volks actually scale without a commander as more than meatshield utility while getting all of their utility also for free! amazing.). Not to forget Maxim doesnt suppress anymore and neither does vickers. And Volks still have the oh-so-balanced napalm nade that dispatches any MG from the field.
Sections also are trash now for their price, even more so due to bren nerfs/vet and cover bonus nerfs. Puma > AEC. whats that? a laser guided shreck for an AEC that has no damage to deal against infantry? A snare that was nerfed once again due to axis outcry so now u have to actually aim it? Like UKF wasnt missing any snares anyway. And Isn't UKF Considered unplayable now by pretty much anyone?

In any case, Brits are probably the faction I do the best with in team games because they have atleast some form of AT and lategame.
Not to forget brits lack any indirect fire except the pits that btw were nerfed too and are static+ suck ass and expensive.

Wasnt a topic made about brits anyway but soviets

I actually feel like soviets are the strongest out of all the allies in team games and in 1v1s. They don't have any weaknesses if you are skilled. They are definitely tricky to play and require unconventional tactics when playing at top 30 or below. If you are struggling late game, you should try using the ram ability on the t34/76.

I actually feel like soviets are the strongest out of all the allies in team games and in 1v1s. They don't have any weaknesses if you are skilled. They are definitely tricky to play and require unconventional tactics when playing at top 30 or below. If you are struggling late game, you should try using the ram ability on the t34/76.

they have synergy and flexibility(kinda, t2 sucks outside of mortar) for sure, but their design of "cheaper units but more" doesn't work and theres a lot of flaws and oversights ( like the is-2 while being limited to 1..). Pop cap and resources come in the way too and well, 3v3's are team games too so in a perfect world where ur team isn't crappy they might work really well.

Unconventional =/= cheese.
I use the ram and it's good but let's not forget its a 90 fuel snare with RNG involved and then you actually need to kill the tank u rammed with something else and sadly that takes some time which gives them time to react to it or simply smoke it. Or come with their other tanks. It's too theoretical and doesn't work as well in practice.

And all of this strictly in team games and mostly 3v3.

Because IS-2 maneuvaribility is godlike and the scatter on KT (if im not mistaken) is a lot better than the IS-2 but IS-2 winning on AOE damage. But who cares about AoE when u can't hit?

Same armor as IS-2(with again more HP) and germans have the better AT, stop with the bias ty. And are we now acting like the KT has nothing else with it than just the KT itself? Because it might work like that in the perfect world but ingame it doesn't. Pound for pound KT>>>>>>>>IS-2 and its far far more capable, meaning as a breakthrough tank and a heavy it actually does its job. Unlike the IS, IS is a glorified KV, KT can actually bring the hurt, IS-2 cannot. Also doesn't the KT load faster too? Because IS-2 RoF and Dps are awful. And again, the veterancy is horrible. Secure points for an IS-2 , I wonder who came up with that idea. And 160 damage on the boomstick is still hilarious and sad with its RoF.

You do know that the KT now has the same accuracy as the is2 right? How about you back things up with stats instead of bias.

You do know that the KT now has the same accuracy as the is2 right? How about you back things up with stats instead of bias.

Good job nitpicking on one thing I said and stated that I'm not 100% sure about.

Good job nitpicking on one thing I said and stated that I'm not 100% sure about.

If you weren't sure about it why did you even post it.

Btw the rest of your post wasn't that better either. Germans don't have better at they lack 60 range tank destroyers with high pen. And no shit the KT does more damage, it's slower, costs more on a faction that can't build fuel caches, and requires tech. Why are you under the delusion that the is2 should do as much damage.

Please, u can spam volks like soviets can spam conscripts (except volks actually scale without a commander as more than meatshield utility while getting all of their utility also for free!

Volks slightly better than cons.

Not to forget Maxim doesnt suppress anymore and neither does vickers.

I disagree. They do suppress.

And Volks still have the oh-so-balanced napalm nade that dispatches any MG from the field.

You mean the "oh excuse me sir would you mind moving your MG away from this spot. TY" grenade. Most people let the MG sit there in flames until a model drops then just move it 3 meters and it is safe again to keep suppressing.

Puma > AEC

Yes, but making a puma usually means you lose in team games.

Wasnt a topic made about brits anyway but soviets

I was saying the OKW is a joke in team games.

And I did not want to get to far in but:
- Brit AT gun never misses, rapes your puma.
- Centaur rapes your Inf before they can faust.
- Centaur erases your Raketen which misses 2/3 of its shots, if it even gets one off.
- Brit has best MG in game. Its called a bofor. Dirt cheap and damages tanks.

On a narrow 4v4 map one soviet player can erase 2-3 OKW players no problem. 2-maxims, 2-mortars, 2-Zis. A-move across map.

They kinda lack strength because of how the design is and how poor their later game units are, especially heavier vehicles. You are fighting and uphill battle most of the time as soviets in 3v3. The map design doesn't help this either but thats another thing. Team games also have too much fuel float especially with fuel caches for Axis. And as I already stated ISU dps is pretty pathetic and the accuracy leaves something to desire for.It's an assault gun okay fair enough not a dedicated TD, however it doesn't do either that good. Katyusha is pretty inaccurate unless you drive it minimum range and they nerfed the barrage time last patch? I think. Guards I have no problem with or cons per se, but soviets do leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth most of the time and later on you won't have the power to fight on unless you really dominated whole map early-mid game and preserved ur units well. Which is stupid, and in team games OKW/OST early game really isn't that weak either. And since t1 is meta it kinda just makes u wonder..why play cheap version of USF when I can go USF and lock in airborne with rocket strike and far better t4/best mainline infantry?



I am aware and its what makes it awful. And because so many of soviets equipment was nerfed due to axis outcry (cough maxims) its just sad really. OKW early isnt that big of an issue because penals still hold their own. However keep in mind ostheer and okw synergize far far better with each other than any allied factions. I don't play 4v4 but 3v3 though but still.




Ah yes, the tank with IS-2 armor, more hp, Far better gun against AT and with a wiping capability is bad. I'd love if my fireflies didnt bounce mid range from it over half the time. Compare it to a DOCTRINAL 1 LIMIT IS-2 and say that again. IS-2 might cost less but it is awful even for its cost with awful veterancy and in general. Damage on AT is pathetic and GL hitting infantry . I'd rather have a KT even with it's higher cost than IS-2 any day thanks, wanna swap?

If we're talking 1v1s, yes, I'd love to swap OKW Mechanised into IS2 call-in would be beastly.

In team games, there's indeed an argument for the KT being better.

Because IS-2 maneuvaribility is godlike and the scatter on KT (if im not mistaken) is a lot better than the IS-2 but IS-2 winning on AOE damage. But who cares about AoE when u can't hit?

Same armor as IS-2(with again more HP) and germans have the better AT, stop with the bias ty. And are we now acting like the KT has nothing else with it than just the KT itself? Because it might work like that in the perfect world but ingame it doesn't. Pound for pound KT>>>>>>>>IS-2 and its far far more capable, meaning as a breakthrough tank and a heavy it actually does its job. Unlike the IS, IS is a glorified KV, KT can actually bring the hurt, IS-2 cannot. Also doesn't the KT load faster too? Because IS-2 RoF and Dps are awful. And again, the veterancy is horrible. Secure points for an IS-2 , I wonder who came up with that idea. And 160 damage on the boomstick is still hilarious and sad with its RoF.

And let's not act again like Soviets don't tech and just go for 1 IS-2 from the doctrine leaving you really really underhanded . Put IS-2 in t4 then.And it comes at 640 mp/240fuel? so it's no cheap one either from simply a doctrine. As I al ready said,I'll gladly swap IS-2 for KT anyday.
Oh also, Fireflies and SU-85 bounce from KT mid range all the time. Also Jpanzer > Su-85. I guess IS-2 gets locked out with some kiting play from a J too then? Or the various other AT options Axis gets that cuts through anything like hot knife through butter. Heck, I had 2 fireflies bounce 3 shells from a rammed Panther front plate from mid range yesterday

And all this while OKW has extremely capable mainline that scales a bit too well into lategame (and u got obers I guess), Best handheld AT in the game and so on.

"Axis have the best AT in the game". Conveniently forgets that SU85s and Jacksons exist, Ost gets PAK40 but no long-range tank destroyer, and OKW has JP4 but no proper AT gun.

"Best handheld AT in the game". Conveniently forgets that Shrecks come on an expensive 4 man anti-infantry squad which costs 37mp to reinforce.

"OKW mainline scales too well into late game". Against what? The only things Volks beat are stock cons. Go and look at the received accuracy and dps stats.

"I had bad rng 1 time in 200 games, Axis OP".

Yeah well I had a kv1 penetrate Panther front armour twice in a row while at the same time Panther bounced against the KV1 twice in a row. Doesn't change the fact that KV1 is usually terrible vs tanks and the Panther is usually very good vs other tanks.

my only issue with soviets comes of the massive manpower bleed which screws my economy and causes me to get my tanks late.