USF infantry upgrade

Good thing those side grades are compensated for with extra starting resources, free squads, super cost efficient scaling infantry etc.

Want to see a muni strapped faction? Try ostheer. They require munis for infantry just to stay relevant.

Light vehicles giving you trouble? Try an AT gun.

Honestly USF is very strong when you know what you’re doing with the faction. I personally only played 150 games and am currently top100 and exceeding my OKW which I have far more games as. USF is probably tied for best late game faction currently against soviets with the HE Sherman, Jackson on AT, Scott as a solid piece of indirect and many of the strong doctrinal as well. Easy eights are fantastic in 1v1 and even 2v2 against armor, and the Pershing is as good as the former KT.

This faction is only weak to snipers, MG spam on thin maps, and their awful tech fork. Get past that and you’re golden.

Cant survive because the early game is super rough? Good thing VPs prevent the game from ending at 10 minutes... 2 years ago OKW was the late game faction and USF was the early game strong faction. Now we’re on the opposite side because everyone complained they couldn’t “win early game”. So how do you lose “early game” now?

USF is fine when I play vs players below top 20 players, I don't think you have experienced enough frustration vs a really good OKW player.
VS okw players, even you killed two squads if they manage to produce their lucs out around 6 mins, they are completely fine. Still can gain half of the map control. AT gun as you mentioned, you will never kill the lucs vs a good okw player, and you just bleed out in manpower when he pokes you at max range. Which also means, you can't play on both side of the map, you can only play the side where you have at gun. And btw, if you screw up early first grouped engagement vs Volks, then there is no way you winning the game. Volks then build sandbags at fuels and key location waiting for you to attack. They have a better chance of winning since they are long range and don't have to gap close. Still, have SP to flank. Same population caps, volks and sp has more combat potential than USF, since RM is expensive and squishy. You can't get to the late game when you can't survive the early game because of manpower bleed and if their p4 comes before your Sherman it is pretty much game over.
AA half track, can easily be killed by a hold fire camo rekton.
If you go t1, your light vehicle naturally at disadvantage vs OKW 's light vehicle since they have no tech needed at gun.
If you go t2, RM not going to win vs Volks with STG since your don't have .50 cal support.STG always cheaper to get vs tech upgrade bar. So volks have much early power spikes vs RM.
Moreover, one puma from axis completely shutdowns USF light vehicle.
So unless you use some off meta-strategy like WC trucks, MG spam you don't really have an advantage vs OKW.
I believe this is also the reason why USF pick rate is low in gcs.
Either buff RM by give them smokes back or remove the sandbag from Volks. You don't need to remove the sandbag from tommies since their cap rate got nerfered.
People complained about how OP the double LMG on RM was, with the captain's on me ability it was OP. But one single LMG on RM is super bad, you put it on a vetted RE is decent. IMO, LMG 42 is much better than USF LMG, which is also 15 muni cheaper, can be upgraded after battle phase one. LMG 42 comes earlier than 3cp USF lmg. On maps like crossroad, single LMG 42 upgrade on GD makes them 100 to 0 RM. This is the reason why RM needs the smoke to gap close and win closed up engagements. I think relic can make the same change on RM rifle smoke, reduce the range of smoke when RM is supressed, allows the machine gun to reposition. Maybe reduce the dps of USF lmg, and make it 2x for the riflemen.
RM is currently not the backbone of the USF force.

RM should never be allowed to smoke ever again.

Those stupid days where RMs can frontally push MGs off is long gone.

USF is fine when I play vs players below top 20 players, I don't think you have experienced enough frustration vs a really good OKW player.
VS okw players, even you killed two squads if they manage to produce their lucs out around 6 mins, they are completely fine. Still can gain half of the map control. AT gun as you mentioned, you will never kill the lucs vs a good okw player, and you just bleed out in manpower when he pokes you at max range. Which also means, you can't play on both side of the map, you can only play the side where you have at gun. And btw, if you screw up early first grouped engagement vs Volks, then there is no way you winning the game. Volks then build sandbags at fuels and key location waiting for you to attack. They have a better chance of winning since they are long range and don't have to gap close. Still, have SP to flank. Same population caps, volks and sp has more combat potential than USF, since RM is expensive and squishy. You can't get to the late game when you can't survive the early game because of manpower bleed and if their p4 comes before your Sherman it is pretty much game over.
AA half track, can easily be killed by a hold fire camo rekton.
If you go t1, your light vehicle naturally at disadvantage vs OKW 's light vehicle since they have no tech needed at gun.
If you go t2, RM not going to win vs Volks with STG since your don't have .50 cal support.STG always cheaper to get vs tech upgrade bar. So volks have much early power spikes vs RM.
Moreover, one puma from axis completely shutdowns USF light vehicle.
So unless you use some off meta-strategy like WC trucks, MG spam you don't really have an advantage vs OKW.
I believe this is also the reason why USF pick rate is low in gcs.
Either buff RM by give them smokes back or remove the sandbag from Volks. You don't need to remove the sandbag from tommies since their cap rate got nerfered.
People complained about how OP the double LMG on RM was, with the captain's on me ability it was OP. But one single LMG on RM is super bad, you put it on a vetted RE is decent. IMO, LMG 42 is much better than USF LMG, which is also 15 muni cheaper, can be upgraded after battle phase one. LMG 42 comes earlier than 3cp USF lmg. On maps like crossroad, single LMG 42 upgrade on GD makes them 100 to 0 RM. This is the reason why RM needs the smoke to gap close and win closed up engagements. I think relic can make the same change on RM rifle smoke, reduce the range of smoke when RM is supressed, allows the machine gun to reposition. Maybe reduce the dps of USF lmg, and make it 2x for the riflemen.
RM is currently not the backbone of the USF force.

I agree with 90% of your post, but I'm not sure giving back smoke to RM is the good answer even if I also would like too. I'm also not sure if nerfing late game RM is the good answer, don't forget Obers/falls/pzgren exist and RM need to be able to fight them equaly.

OKW / USF match is an uphill battle for USF from minute 0 to 25, if the balance team want it like that, I have no problem with but USF design as a faction is not calibrate for this meta.
I really would like to see sandbag being removed to see how it balance the early game with USF.

...
Either buff RM by give them smokes back or remove the sandbag from Volks. You don't need to remove the sandbag from tommies since their cap rate got nerfered.
....

That is incorrect the change to cap rate did not made into the patch.

Most of the issues with VG come form the ST44 upgrade which actually uses a profile closer to g43.

As for sandbag imo they should not be available to any mainline infantry even doctrinal (maybe only to conscripts/vgs with no weapon upgrades). Even if they where they should be built very slowly by mainline infantry.

Agree totally with OP and a lot of what's being said here. USF could have some minor buffs such as M20 manpower price decrease, but the bigger problem is Volksspam being OP on a faction that was originally designed as a late-game faction. I find OKW really boring to play now since spamming Volks can pretty much carry the early, mid, and even late game.

Something has to change - even something small like putting flame nades behind tech or taking away sandbags. Volks will always have a big role (snaring, capping, supporting, damage sponge for other inf.) but being able to win any 1v1 engagement with Rifles from behind cover (sandbags) and also when attacking cover or buildings (flame nade) is just stupid.

My suggestion since long ago was to remove the weird all-ranges StG upgrade. Volks don't need to be anti-infantry infantry when OKW already has Obers + Falls, PFusils, or Jagers. Even if you replace Volks' StG with something as powerful but more situational like MP40s, and flame nade unlock, at least it forces a choice for each quad having either long or short range firepower and therefore either good defence or good attack, rather than being able to win or cause disproportionate MP bleed in 90% of situations.

USF is fine when I play vs players below top 20 players, I don't think you have experienced enough frustration vs a really good OKW player.
VS okw players, even you killed two squads if they manage to produce their lucs out around 6 mins, they are completely fine. Still can gain half of the map control. AT gun as you mentioned, you will never kill the lucs vs a good okw player, and you just bleed out in manpower when he pokes you at max range. Which also means, you can't play on both side of the map, you can only play the side where you have at gun. And btw, if you screw up early first grouped engagement vs Volks, then there is no way you winning the game. Volks then build sandbags at fuels and key location waiting for you to attack. They have a better chance of winning since they are long range and don't have to gap close. Still, have SP to flank. Same population caps, volks and sp has more combat potential than USF, since RM is expensive and squishy. You can't get to the late game when you can't survive the early game because of manpower bleed and if their p4 comes before your Sherman it is pretty much game over.
AA half track, can easily be killed by a hold fire camo rekton.
If you go t1, your light vehicle naturally at disadvantage vs OKW 's light vehicle since they have no tech needed at gun.
If you go t2, RM not going to win vs Volks with STG since your don't have .50 cal support.STG always cheaper to get vs tech upgrade bar. So volks have much early power spikes vs RM.
Moreover, one puma from axis completely shutdowns USF light vehicle.
So unless you use some off meta-strategy like WC trucks, MG spam you don't really have an advantage vs OKW.
I believe this is also the reason why USF pick rate is low in gcs.
Either buff RM by give them smokes back or remove the sandbag from Volks. You don't need to remove the sandbag from tommies since their cap rate got nerfered.
People complained about how OP the double LMG on RM was, with the captain's on me ability it was OP. But one single LMG on RM is super bad, you put it on a vetted RE is decent. IMO, LMG 42 is much better than USF LMG, which is also 15 muni cheaper, can be upgraded after battle phase one. LMG 42 comes earlier than 3cp USF lmg. On maps like crossroad, single LMG 42 upgrade on GD makes them 100 to 0 RM. This is the reason why RM needs the smoke to gap close and win closed up engagements. I think relic can make the same change on RM rifle smoke, reduce the range of smoke when RM is supressed, allows the machine gun to reposition. Maybe reduce the dps of USF lmg, and make it 2x for the riflemen.
RM is currently not the backbone of the USF force.

I don’t know how you think 1x LMG on a rifle is bad, when it is nearly identical to the LMG42 on a more durable squad. Your advantage vs OKW is your lategame scaling and you need to exploit their awful weaknesses. OKW still lacks smoke heavily so MGs work great, and the 50 is argueably the best MG. If you have a problem with OKW lights maybe you should convey to the balance team to stop dumping on volks so that OKW can use other parts of their army. You REQUIRE a light as OKW currently because volks don’t scale through mid game and the support teams are still mediocre. The best OKW support teams are when the soviets steal them which is really sad. Fighting 6 man raketen and 6 man MG42s for ostheer is truly scary.

You point out in your post that you need support teams as USF just like any faction. Instead of making horrible changes like giving rifles smoke, go for changes that would actually help the faction like getting rid of their awful tech fork.

I don’t know how you think 1x LMG on a rifle is bad, when it is nearly identical to the LMG42 on a more durable squad. Your advantage vs OKW is your lategame scaling and you need to exploit their awful weaknesses. OKW still lacks smoke heavily so MGs work great, and the 50 is argueably the best MG. If you have a problem with OKW lights maybe you should convey to the balance team to stop dumping on volks so that OKW can use other parts of their army. You REQUIRE a light as OKW currently because volks don’t scale through mid game and the support teams are still mediocre. The best OKW support teams are when the soviets steal them which is really sad. Fighting 6 man raketen and 6 man MG42s for ostheer is truly scary.

You point out in your post that you need support teams as USF just like any faction. Instead of making horrible changes like giving rifles smoke, go for changes that would actually help the faction like getting rid of their awful tech fork.

You mean you can't flank a .50 with its small cone of fire without smoke? .50 being best hmg in game has been debunk already, it was the case with sprint but not anymore.
Every faction requires light vehicle, that's how the meta is today. The problem is OKW light >>> USF light in term of durability and damage being upon OKW infantry > USF infantry early game plus OKW having access to atgun from T0 and USF still being locked T2.

You mean you can't flank a .50 with its small cone of fire without smoke? .50 being best hmg in game has been debunk already, it was the case with sprint but not anymore.
Every faction requires light vehicle, that's how the meta is today. The problem is OKW light >>> USF light in term of durability and damage being upon OKW infantry > USF infantry early game plus OKW having access to atgun from T0 and USF still being locked T2.

Debunked by who? The 50 trades the wider arc for a halved setup time of the 42. Its up to personal opinion which is better. That’s also why I said argueable.....

Debunked by who? The 50 trades the wider arc for a halved setup time of the 42. Its up to personal opinion which is better.

Every faction doesn’t need a light. Brits and USF especially. If OKW doesn’t get a light they get mediocre support teams that just get ruined by upgraded rifles. USF doesn’t need a light to make it to late game if your opponent doesn’t get one. Same for brits. OKW requires it because volks fall off and you lose large amount of map control and pressure without it.

And I missed the edit button.

Debunked by who? The 50 trades the wider arc for a halved setup time of the 42. Its up to personal opinion which is better. That’s also why I said argueable.....

And? Do you think the HMG can unsetup and resetup facing 2 squads flanking?

Brit doesn't need light, that's probably why everyone build a carrier and upgrade the vicker asap in every game I see and the same for the AEC. Light is meta, every faction get access to it and should use it. In the current state of the game if the USF doesn't need to build light that's probably because the player outplayed his opponent on the early game, and this is the same for every faction, in that case you can skip light and rush medium if you want.

And? Do you think the HMG can unsetup and resetup facing 2 squads flanking?

Brit doesn't need light, that's probably why everyone build a carrier and upgrade the vicker asap in every game I see and the same for the AEC. Light is meta, every faction get access to it and should use it. In the current state of the game if the USF doesn't need to build light that's probably because the player outplayed his opponent on the early game, and this is the same for every faction, in that case you can skip light and rush medium if you want.

Yes with support it’s very easy with the 50 cal. Try doing that with a 42 against oorah ppsh cons.

I think you missunderstand the purpose of light vehicles. If OKW doesn’t get a light then their infantry just get rolled over because of super upgrades. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game as USF where I’m backed into a corner from axis infantry alone and REQUIRE a light to push them off. I just bolster/upgrades and just push them back. The soviets only get the T70 because it’s insanely good AI with decent AT, and then on top of being good at that, gives literally global vision at vet 3.

Yes with support it’s very easy with the 50 cal. Try doing that with a 42 against oorah ppsh cons.

I think you missunderstand the purpose of light vehicles. If OKW doesn’t get a light then their infantry just get rolled over because of super upgrades. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game as USF where I’m backed into a corner from axis infantry alone and REQUIRE a light to push them off. I just bolster/upgrades and just push them back. The soviets only get the T70 because it’s insanely good AI with decent AT, and then on top of being good at that, gives literally global vision at vet 3.

Well that's your opinion on the .50, to me the weapon is fine and not so powerful.

The only reason I don't build light vehicle anymore as USF is
vs Ostheer: Mobile Defense meta. I just ended a game where I took the uper hand early game just to see my opponent calling 2 Puma and a CPz4 vs 1 sherman. Sometime I feel punished to play better early game and build a LV to keep the pressure.
vs OKW: T1 is kind of suicidal those days so yes I don't build a lot of LVs but not really by choice, I only build a Stuart if I need it which is almost every game.

But without light you bleed hard, I can see it myself.

Riflemen are in a weird spot, I don't feel they are worth 280mp but when you spend 120mu for dual BARs they are amazing.

Luchs is the most balanced light vehicle when it comes to AI power, doesn't come out to early, doesn't wipe squads in 10 seconds from full health like bullshit T70 and can be countered by AT dedicated lights.

The problem with LV meta is the fact that *cough* T70/444 are too cost effective for what they do since they can fight off AT dedicated LV with just having mainline infantry screens(or Guards cause let's have an elite that stomps everything mid game).

Stuart/AEC/OKWPuma is only worth it if enemy is using more than 1 LV, which is risky vs OKW(you hope for 2 Luchs builds except Brits cause no non-doc snares) and OST(if they don't go Mob Def congrats you just wasted fuel). Versus Allies as OKW Luchs are the only leverage you have against Allies infantry, lose it early you lose every infantry engagement.

I think sandbags stock on mainlines is a bad idea. It should be doctrinal. UKF can keep their trenches as the trenches have a longer build time, only built on friendly sectors and can be used against u. And I think some of the weaker Brit docs should allow sandbags or make it a veteran ability on IS/sappers.

I agree with IpKaiFung. Riflemen ARE in a weird spot. Vs Ost they are far more cost efficient than grens right off the bat. Vs OKW they are a bit lacking at vet 0 but after upgrades and/or vet, they are more than decent. This dictates when to get aggressive. Vs Ost: hit the ground running. Vs OKW: secure your own stuff first and see where OKW is going before leaving your own side of the map. OKW has no mid game unless they get luchs which will in turn jeopardize their late game if their luchs gets killed too quickly.

The original poster just needs to understand that the riflemen easily outscale volks and the only time they are not as cost effective is the first 5min vs OKW. Relic cannot be trusted with faction descriptions. USF is an aggressive faction. Guess what? So is OKW. Don't get mad because OKW can out-aggress you in the first 5 min. USF beats OKW in the 5-20 min mark for 1v1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSpjWnDko2I
Newest GCS USF game, you can see easily why riflemen are bad between two similar skill level players. More model drops on the riflemen than grens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSpjWnDko2I
Newest GCS USF game, you can see easily why riflemen are bad between two similar skill level players. More model drops on the riflemen than grens.

Not really, riflemen might have more casualties but not because grenadier are better.

First engagement is 1 riflemen vs 1 gren +1mg + 1 gren most casualties are on retreat from mg point blank.

Second encounter is riflemen vs pio point blank.

Third encounter is 2 gren vs 1 riflemen that soft retreat and then attempt to charge 1 gren trough red cover while they have taken damage and are down to 4.

In all initial engagements riflemen where in a disadvantage and in addition VonIvan retreats his grenadiers early to avoid casualties (minute 3:52).

Most of the casualties in initial engagement are probably from pio (3) and MG (2) and not from grenadiers. Most of the damage from grenadiers comes later from rifle grenades.

After that Ostheer have heal and USF do not.

Not really, riflemen might have more casualties but not because grenadier are better.

First engagement is 1 riflemen vs 1 gren +1mg + 1 gren most casualties are on retreat from mg point blank.

Second encounter is riflemen vs pio point blank.

Third encounter is 2 gren vs 1 riflemen that soft retreat and then attempt to charge 1 gren trough red cover while they have taken damage and are down to 4.

In all initial engagements riflemen where in a disadvantage and in addition VonIvan retreats his grenadiers early to avoid casualties (minute 3:52).

Most of the casualties in initial engagement are probably from pio (3) and MG (2) and not from grenadiers. Most of the damage from grenadiers comes later from rifle grenades.

After that Ostheer have heal and USF do not.

it's useless to try to explain to him, even if u showed him ober losing to RE in green cover vs red he would just say u cherry picked the fight, can't u see it's a new account ? it's prob one of AAA alt

Not really, riflemen might have more casualties but not because grenadier are better.

First engagement is 1 riflemen vs 1 gren +1mg + 1 gren most casualties are on retreat from mg point blank.

Second encounter is riflemen vs pio point blank.

Third encounter is 2 gren vs 1 riflemen that soft retreat and then attempt to charge 1 gren trough red cover while they have taken damage and are down to 4.

In all initial engagements riflemen where in a disadvantage and in addition VonIvan retreats his grenadiers early to avoid casualties (minute 3:52).

Most of the casualties in initial engagement are probably from pio (3) and MG (2) and not from grenadiers. Most of the damage from grenadiers comes later from rifle grenades.

After that Ostheer have heal and USF do not.

Just check out the overall win rate of USF in GCS. Super low, not even close to 1:3

Just check out the overall win rate of USF in GCS. Super low, not even close to 1:3

There is a number of units and factor involved in game. Saying that Grenadier are better than Riflemen because Ostheer have better win ratio to USF is a gigantic stretch.

In addition I simply pointed out that in specific video you provided USF did not lose Ostheer because riflemen performed worse than grenadiers. I would suggest that if you want to back your claim with video check that the video you provide actually promotes your point.