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Soviet Overhaul Suggestions

4 Jul 2018, 20:03 PM
#1
avatar of junkmail

Posts: 4

First, a couple of disclaimers: I'm not particularly great at the game, and I'm nowhere near a top level player. I can float around top 200 territory but I'm not amazing. Second, I know that most of these changes are buffs. So sue me, I just want to be excited to play this faction again. I also think that the other factions should see similar levels of buffing. This isn't so much a balance suggestion (although some are in here) as it is a series of suggestions to make the faction more interesting. (Also it's a good idea to just make it so Axis versus Axis and Allies versus Allies matches are possible but w/e)

With that out of the way, let me explain what I think the Soviet faction is about.

1: Soviets play for the midgame. Rather than being a momentum focused faction like USF or playing for lategame inevitability like the Ostheer, the Soviets get their asses handed to them early on when their infantry are weak and struggle against tanks named after animals in the lategame, but when they hit a critical mass of high-veterancy infantry and cost-efficient vehicles, they can run the map like no one else. This is emphasized by their lack of defensive tools - they don't have the tools to lock down their gains and have to keep playing aggressively throughout the game.

2: Durability over firepower. Most Soviet squads have more models than their equivalents in other factions but hit less hard. They also have access to more heavy tanks than any other faction. This makes them less likely to get squad wiped, but forces them to play to wipe enemy squads to keep up parity.

3: Utility and information. Moreso than other factions, Soviet units come with special abilities and complement each other. Their units aren't generalists, but might be able to have a use against a unit they don't counter. Similarly, the Soviets have the most tools to figure out where their enemies are. They have access to tripwire flares, mortar flares, sniper flares, tracking on tank destroyers, vision boosts on light tanks, spy networks, recon flights and radio intercepts. This makes a large part of the Soviet playstyle to be finding and trapping enemy forces.

All of the changes I have suggested are made with these ideas in mind. So, with that out of the way:

Conscripts

- Vet 1 ability changed from tripwire flares to Hit the Dirt.

Tripwire flares were previously notorious for being every Soviet infantry unit's vet 1 ability, but let's go ahead and make them unique to Engineers. It makes less sense for Cons to have a mine-type ability than giving them an ability which emphasizes their use as a durable, versatile infantry unit.

- PPsH upgrade now can be dropped and must be rebought.

Right now, the PPsH upgrade gives too much damage too consistently for Cons. By increasing the munitions drain on using them, it gives an avenue for Axis players to deny firepower to the Soviet player.

Snipers

Right now, the Soviet sniper is almost a copy of the Wehr sniper. This isn't particularly interesting and more should be done to differentiate them. I think leaning into utility and information is a good way to make the Soviet sniper unique. The current sniper flare is a good start - that is, to make Scout Snipers into Scouts and Snipers, rather than just Snipers.

- Sniper manpower cost reduced from 360 to 300, and population cost reduced from 10 to 9.

- Sniper firepower (aim time, reload time) significantly reduced.

- Snipers now have a vet 2 ability - mark target. 40 munitions, target an enemy unit in attack range. The sniper stops firing and marks the target, resulting in a 25% received accuracy penalty for the marked unit. The sniper may remain cloaked while using this ability, but moving or issuing an order to them cancels the ability.

- Vet 3 snipers have increased move speed while cloaked.

Scout Car

- Removed from Special Rifle Command, and made into a doctrinal unit.

M5 Halftrack

- Now purchasable from Special Rifle Command. However, the Meat Chopper upgrade is not purchaseable until Tankoviy Battalion Command has been built.

- Increased health, but reduced armor.

Currently the halftrack sees barely any use as a troop transport - it simply comes out too late in the game, when light tanks and panzerfausts are everywhere, to be used aggressively to move troops for flanks. Additionally, the change to health should make it more usable once tanks come out while still preserving its weakness to small-arms fire.

Maxim Gun

- Squad reinforce cost reverted to 15.

The MG42 has a reinforce cost of 22, while the Maxim has a reinforce cost of 20. This change was made ages ago when players were using Maxims fairly aggressively, but since the unit has been nerfed into the ground it doesn't make sense any more.

- Suppression increased.

Right now, you can march a Volks squad straight at a building with a Maxim in it and throw a flame grenade before you get pinned.

SU-76

- Fire rate and Barrage reverted to previous patch values.

- Rotation speed and acceleration reduced.

While the SU-76 was out of line prepatch, its offensive firepower was completely destroyed. Instead, I think it's better to reduce it's speed, making it harder to get out of tight scrapes for free.

T-70

- Coaxial and hull mg damage reduced.

- Vet 2 grants a health boost.

Right now, the Soviet metagame is somewhat focused on all-or-nothing rushing a T-70, since it is very powerful if an enemy medium tank is not present.

T34-76

The T34-76 is a pretty sad tank right now. It comes out later than basically all other medium tanks and is probably the worst of them all. These changes are mostly made to differentiate it from other mediums and give it more of a defined role as a quick flanker that comes out to complement the Soviet midgame.

- The T34-76 is now purchasable from the Tankoviy Battalion Command.

- Fuel cost increased to 110.

- Top movement speed increased.

This is a fairly radical change that results in T34s hitting the field much earlier. However, I think it fits the timings that Soviets generally play into and makes it feel like a more viable option. This could be utterly broken and have to get rolled back, but I think it is worth looking at.

SU-85

- Population reverted to 12.

Without a consistent way to damage heavy tanks in the late game thanks to the ridiculous population cost of SU-85s, Soviets are completely reliant on doctrinal units (The T34-85) to handle enemy armor. This change helps make Soviets less doctrinally dependent and make more commanders viable.

KV-1

- Now a core unit buildable from Mechanized Armor Kampaneya.

- Vet 1 ability changed from Secure Territory to Hull Down - after 5 seconds, the tank cannot move but gains bonuses to armor.

The KV-1 is a good choice for default Tier 4. It helps define T4 as a building built reactively rather than proactively, and since it doesn't have ludicrous firepower Soviets are still reliant on combined arms for late game power.

That's it for core units. I might follow up with doctrinal changes that I'd like to see.
4 Jul 2018, 20:15 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Why people are so keen on fixing what isn't broken?
4 Jul 2018, 21:14 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Some of these changes are pretty decent but T34 can´t be in T3. That´s way too OP.
5 Jul 2018, 11:34 AM
#4
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

This actually seems like its on the right track... the soviet faction is very reliant on guards cheese and cons/ppsh + T2/1 maxim/penal/sniper/flametruck combo to be useful... some of these changes coupled with a minor guards nerf should promote diversity for the faction other than the simple guards cheese most soviet players are relegated to doing....

i also think that like the old maxim spam issue... the reason why guards spam is extremely prevalent nowadays is simply due to the soviets lacking viable strategies over guards spam except cons PPSH...

and i think a faction relegated to a single viable build is kinda broken...
5 Jul 2018, 15:18 PM
#5
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

worst change suggestions ever . Soviets are the most OP faction in the game and you are simply buffing everything even more to a rediculous margin. Thank god you are not in charge of balance.
5 Jul 2018, 17:15 PM
#6
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

SU-76

- Fire rate and Barrage reverted to previous patch values.

- Rotation speed and acceleration reduced.

While the SU-76 was out of line prepatch, its offensive firepower was completely destroyed. Instead, I think it's better to reduce it's speed, making it harder to get out of tight scrapes for free.


They should revert the DPM nerf and instead lower the penetration as was proposed in the first iteration of the SBP. The SU-76's DPM wasn't really what was causing trouble in team games, it was the fact that it could scale way too well and a blob of them could easily frontally kill Panthers, Tigers or even King Tigers. This made them too cost-effective and spamable.
Restoring DPM and nerfing penetration would put it back as a solid stopgap light vehicle counter, a soft-counter to the Panzer IV and Stug, but leave it pretty useless against the late game heavy tanks.

IMO the cost added to barrage is good, because it was pretty ridiculous as a blob of them could fight off both vehicles and infantry with ease.
5 Jul 2018, 17:22 PM
#7
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

They should revert the DPM nerf and instead lower the penetration as was proposed in the first iteration of the SBP.


They didn't do that because it didn't achieve anything in testing.
5 Jul 2018, 20:03 PM
#8
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Several issues.

1- Tripwire won't be removed from main line infantry. You could probably ask for a muni reduction to 5 or free if you remove the damage component of it. They already have a cd and they can't hit more than 1 model.

2- PPSH can't drop for the same reason G43 or Thompsons don't drop.

3- We have already gone through too much changes to the sniper. Flares should reveal cloaked units.

4- You just made a stronger clowncar which can scale.

5- You are re introducing maxim spam with those changes.

6- T3476 on T3 is OP

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