Counter Sherman Easy 8 as OKW

Hi all,

This is the first time I do write something on this forum and it's because I need some help. In the last few days, I've been playing against USF a lot. And pretty often, they go for the Rifle Company. Now I don't really have a problem dealing with RE's flame throwers or any other ability the commander has to off. BUT, what buggs me, is of course the famous Sherman Easy 8. I just can't win when my opponent chooses to build these. Recently I have been mainly playing OKW and what I'm looking for is counters for this beast of a tank.

Note that I tried several tactics.
1. Of course, I did try to use the Raketen. Well thing is, Easy 8's armor almost always deflects the rak's shot. It's just not a viable option. Only side and rear shots penetrate. On the other hand, Rak's shot penetrates Panther frontal armor. (Yes, sometimes Raketens get stolen ) P.S.: Last game, Sherman bounced off 2 Raketen rockets in a row at point blank range.
2. Normally, as soon as I see the first Easy 8 on the field, I'm about to get my hands on the good ol' Panzer IV. But again, Sherman's frontal (and sometimes even side armor) deflects the Panzer IV's shot like 60% of the time. And needless to say that the Panzer IV receives massive damage from the Easy 8's 76mm gun.
3. Jagdpanzer. It's an awesome tank. Don't get me wrong. But then again and again, its shot bounces off pretty often. Moreover, the lack of turret makes this tank a gamble against the Easy 8 speed and output damage.
4. Panther. Well, I can't just wait to get a Panther while my opponent already has fielded a Sherman. So Panther is almost always the second tank in my arsenal. Now the Panther is the only thing that's a real treat to the Easy 8. But the Panther's cost is massive and when it comes on the field, there are normally three Easy 8s fielded by the USF.
5. Panzershrecks. I like to ambush tank with them but, once again, shrecks bounces off Sherman frontal armor. Rear shots are hard to achieve since the Easy 8 back off as soon as they are below 1/3 HP.
6. Combined arms. This is of course the best way to counter E8s IMO. Countering rifle blob with Flaktrack and mines is my speciality but once the Shermans roll in, I gotta use all I have. And when 1 Panzer IV, 1 Panther, 2 shrecks, 1 Raketen aren't able to deal with 3 Easy 8s, I'm just clueless. I do back my tanks with the frontal armor pointing the ennemy but the sherman's speed, damage and penetration renders almost any tank warfare impossible. Kiting with Panther Commander is the only thing I did find OK at best.
7. Panzerfaust. I know it's not a heavy counter but it helps a lot. Unfortunately, E8 has very good AI capabilities and getting a rear shot is very hard. rushing towards a group of Shermans is suicide, even when engaging first with tanks and flaking with volks. Moreover, Sherman has speed to evade volks before they get in range.

Now I'm very not crying for a nerf nor for a buff on the Axis side. But I do think it's funny the Sherman Easy 8 gets more HP and massive armor while historically it only benifited from a slightly better main gun (a little bit like T-34/85). I think that right now, it's quite easy (no pun intended) to steam roll axis with a few E8 Shermans. Any ideas to counter Rifle company? I think I never won against a player using them, or at least not in the last months. Should the E8 receive a speed buff and armor nerfed? Or something like that? I don't know. I do consider myself a good player, but I'm not a legend and I'd like to get some feedback from this awesome community.


Sorry if I made some mistakes, English's my second language.

Thanks a lot!

Phil

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8

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Read the relevant stats so you get an idea of how units act in combat.

Is this 1v1 or teamgames?

Easy 8s' main guns aren't super good against infantry, so the raketen is actually your best bet; I would even make 2 of them instead of getting a second schreck. The bouncing you had is most likely just bad rng for you, raketens should be able to penetrate the easy 8 fairly reliably.

Hi, thanks for replies.

I play mostly 2v2s.

blvckdream, I'll look at the stats. Even tho I play CoH since 2011 (vcoh back in the days), I'm sure I can always learn.

LoopDloop, While I agree their main gun isnt the best VS inf, it can still inflict serious damage to Raketen. I've tried double, even triple, and most of the time they just flank them after taking only minor damage (which is of course what you'd do if an AT is targeting your tank). RNG is definitely crazy sometimes. I'll try to position Reketens so they can counter attack on Shermans flanks when they advance. I guess my skills need to be improved.

JP4 is ur answer to anything classified as not-heavy tank

Hi, thanks for replies.

I play mostly 2v2s.

blvckdream, I'll look at the stats. Even tho I play CoH since 2011 (vcoh back in the days), I'm sure I can always learn.

LoopDloop, While I agree their main gun isnt the best VS inf, it can still inflict serious damage to Raketen. I've tried double, even triple, and most of the time they just flank them after taking only minor damage (which is of course what you'd do if an AT is targeting your tank). RNG is definitely crazy sometimes. I'll try to position Reketens so they can counter attack on Shermans flanks when they advance. I guess my skills need to be improved.

Yeah the best way to avoid that would be keeping volks in the vicinity to snare the easy 8s before they can get that close. You want to keep them away from your raketens so they don't do as much damage and aren't able to flank them. Smart mine placement will also do the trick but having volks around to snare is critical against aggressive medium tank play.

JP4 is ur answer to anything classified as not-heavy tank

Also this. Everyone always forgets jp4s exist but they're a great unit. Again, make sure they don't get flanked like your raketens by keeping snares around.

So lets look at the stats ..

EZ 8 HP 720 armour 215/95 40 range

OKW counters (Penetration stat, damage always 160)

Raketenwerfer: 200-190-180 -> Chance to penetrate: 93%/88%/84% 50 range
P4: 125-110-100 -> Chance to penetrate: 58%/51%/46% 40 range
Panther: 260-240-220 -> Chance to penetrate: 100% 50 range
JP4: 200-185-175 -> Chance to penetrate: 93%/86%/82% 60 range

Apart from P4 which struggles to penetrate all other AT options OKW has work perfectly fine vs. the E8. Raketenwerfer, Panther and especially JP4 have more range than the E8 too.

What happened in your games is that you got unlucky. That´s pretty much it.

Use double cloaked Raketen + JP4 against E8 spam. Or if you have plenty of ressources 2 Panthers. It´s going to work well if your opponent doesn´t outmicro you.

Generally ALWAYS keep Volks next to your Raketenwerfers and JP4s in order to snare enemy tanks. Always lay mines on roads that are often used or generally areas where you expect a tank to drive through. Keep in mind where your mines are so you are ready to finish off a snared tank.


And by the way I haven´t seen E8s used against me in ages. Not sure why you encounter them so often?

Thanks for all replies, much appreciated.

I don't know why I encounter them often but it's been a plague lately, since I had trouble to deal with them! I'll definitely try to use more the Jagd and protect its flanks with volks and mines. It's an awesome tank that I sometimes use but I found that its role was limited when playing vs E8s. Gonna try and use it more wisely! As most of you said, I've been kind of unlucky with these bounces. P4 is a no go from now on when playing against these E8s.

I'll try to improve micro too, always good to keep an eye on every unit.

Thanks again for every answer and see you on the Battlefield!

I know you’ve seem to got your answer in there but I would say go panther instead of jp4. The jp4 is a good TD but is still able to be flanked and can’t chase very well. The panther has some decent AI before the battlefield is crater field and has its pintle. Double rak to support it and you’re pretty much golden. The crucial part you took away from this is don’t go P4. They get absolutely dumped on against the E8

your panzer iv is not only non commander but has more armor than E8 you can put mines if RE have flames or more stealth raket panzer faust or panzer shreck E8 imo needs a buff preatty much lacking speed and lack luster cannon

your panzer iv is not only non commander but has more armor than E8 you can put mines if RE have flames or more stealth raket panzer faust or panzer shreck E8 imo needs a buff preatty much lacking speed and lack luster cannon

P4 is probably a bad counter. Sure it has like 20 more armour than the E8, but the E8 has 45 more far pen than the P4.

110 pen vs 215 armour no bueno.

ez8 is a pain when the attack you in wolfspack, rakten doesnt work because of dying in mostly 1-2 shoots or will be smoked.

jp4 is a victime because of easy flankable and even 2 of them cant defend to 2-3 ez8 ...they would flank and own you.

you must be sure that the ez8 are fausted...but to bad that faust mostly doesnt engine dmg. too bad.

you must work hard vs the superior riflespam and cant breath...and will be overrun by ez8 easily.

and when your enemy build 2 ez8 and one jackson...plus ihis infantery and maybe one M1 AT gun. ....you can only lose with your 2 jp4 and 1-2 rakten.

only mines and lucky faust will help you.

Panther is better than jp4 since e8s are designed to be effective on the move. This means the jp4 may have trouble tracking it. Panther usually does a good job of dealing with e8s.

P4 is probably a bad counter. Sure it has like 20 more armour than the E8, but the E8 has 45 more far pen than the P4.

110 pen vs 215 armour no bueno.

P4 has actually 125 pen close range 115 mid 105 long range it was buffed all ranges and it is better vs infrnatry that E8.The problem with E8 is that its SOOOOO lucklaster literly it sometiems bounces shot after shot and is so bad vs infrantry and its too slow imo even if the p4 cant fight the E8 but sometiems it always pen my E8 and i find is it worth getting an E8 these days it anymore preatty lack luster and preatty slow imo for a commander ability it should be buffed some how like speed or more armor for more cost be like a premium tank

i think it was really bad rng thing. just do as you do. 2-3 raketen or jp or even jt/kt is a good choice to deal with ez8 in 2v2.
+mines is a good tool too only costs 30muni.

I use E8's alot when playing USF, the biggest pains I get when using them are:

- Snares, although they have more armour than a default sherman, it's not really a tanky tank, most of the time a snared easy 8 is a dead easy 8. (this is made worse by the swarming/flanking tactics they are best at against heavier tanks, so they are typically snared at close range to you)

- Panthers + shrek sturmipio: Panthers are just better than easy 8's, even the numerical advantage of the easy 8's by using shrek sturms (they can reliably pen the front), I wouldn't use more than the occassional rak because the smoke mortars of shermans is best tank ability in the game. Your sturms can also fend of US infantry support (I often keep 2 squads of double zooks RE's around my E8's for tipping the scales against a panther and extra repairs. The pios will also stop the E8s swarming and getting to the side of your tanks because they cant close the distance.

- A single long range TD (JT or JP4 supported by mediums and sturm pios to stop flanking, then turtle forward with your inf. But be ready for a combinded E8/rifle rush with a lot of smoke bombs flying infront of any weapon teams.

DO NOT USE:

- JP4 (unless you have alotta AT inf around it) E8's work best for me when swarming enemy armor, they just dont work that well from the front against Panthers and anything bigger. A group of JP4 in isoblation when be flanked and chewed.

- Too many raks, they will be negated by the smoke bombs, they will delay my tank/RE force cause I cant advance past them while they're alive, but I really just avoid them until I can reposition some Rifles to take them out. If you're in a really tough position with MG's I'll use the E8's with them for fire support and to smoke out every MG and Rak you have, followed by rifle nades.




Basically, Even the numbers using AT teams, but be as mobile as possible and micro yourself out of any smoke. I Often use their smoke ability in a line to section off a single tank, swarm to destroy it, retreat, then rinse and repreat. Basically you need to be microing almost as hard as the USF guy.

Are you tom23456? I think I faced your E8 swarm the other day.

Command Panther. It has marked target and effective max range.

Are you tom23456? I think I faced your E8 swarm the other day.

nah, TomDRV, IF you played any games the last few weeks you probably would have seen me though, although I've switched to SU this last week. The double RE's would be the giveaway for me if you've seen them, I used them every time.