Second Commander Rework

I'm surprised not that many people said airborne company. Other than p47s it feels pretty lackluster because of callin timing and the fact that 40% of its abilities are just more expensive versions of vanilla team weapons (which is useful but its no valiant assault or time on target (point is they take the place of more useful abilities in a commander that already has 2 callin infantry).

The abilities in there are wrong.

Because they are modified. makes more sense this way

Community Defense Doctrine for Wehrmacht

When 1 commander ability is tank traps... TANK TRAPS and nothing else, you already know what you have to deal with


Already voted it 1 year ago and was surprised it didnt win



Im surprised that OKW Elite Armor is leading pretty hard. I mean sure the Sturmtiger sucks right now but you still have cheap maphack, engine self repair and the best ability of the doc... HEAT shells who are completely obnoxious on JP4s

Although some of the reworked commanders on this site are silly, some changes might actually be an interesting way to spice up the metagame. http://dreadmode.willherzog.net/ I thought removing the T-34/85 from the Advanced Warfare commander and adding an IS-2 was an interesting idea since Armored Assault kind of overshadows that commander right now.

Just two reworks per faction? Sorry but this is too little too late. If they want people to come back to this game they need to rehaul the commander system itself.

Im surprised that OKW Elite Armor is leading pretty hard. I mean sure the Sturmtiger sucks right now but you still have cheap maphack, engine self repair and the best ability of the doc... HEAT shells who are completely obnoxious on JP4s

OKW has quite good commander pool right now. I mean Elite Armor (which as you said isn't actually so bad) and Overwatch (too much radio/intel/flare abilities) are leading becouse they are least used and not becouse they are terribly design

Same with Brits. They have 2 or 3 weak commanders compare to others and that's it. Kinda obvious vote

There are lots of things going on id like to change but i try to put shortly what commanders i think could use some rework

German Infantry Doctrine: this one has been always lackluster, relying on your munition dumps bit too much. Id personally think it would work best as aggression commander. Id swap officer/ relief and 7.5 arty/frag flight for assault grenadiers and stug e/short barreled pnz4 (not command) They could make it more focused on infantry play. panzer 4 or stug e giving earlier anti infantry choice. Id love to have assault grenadiers too, but they need some changes to be worth it, for example make them come later but more powerful.

Usf: while i can see why people want armor company back on its feet, i think airborne needs some improvements. Its currently overly mp heavy and that could be changed by turning airdrop weapon teams to cost munitions instead and turning hated skill planes into actual rocket strafe. As it comes to armor company, i want assault engineers bit more utility outside flamethrower + occasional mine unit, as a substitute close range combat unit, with for example damage buff or adding extra man to squad

OKW: Elite armor for sure. Its quite underwhelming as only thing people went for it was sturmtiger and all other abilites are just... forgottable. I personally would remove sturm entirely, but as thats unlikely, id add stug to this doctrine. I see stug as good choice as it would work for commander focusing on improving vehicles, as cheaper at vehicle that can take basic tank duties would be decent addition, but i know how people argue of adding other faction things to each others, so i want to know your opinion.

Soviets: I do not play soviets that much, but id say nkvd would be the most likely one to get reworked. Its weird combonation of anti infantry and recon, but is too munitions expensive and there is anti infantry commander for anti inf. Id like to keep its recon elements, but change anti infantry offmaps to something that would help ambushing, for example, partisans, commissar as infantry bolstering officer or my idea, 4 man infiltration shock troop unit. Second change worthy id say is urban defense and community defence, both are very early game heavy and often hinder you later game drags. to urban defence id take off armor spotting ability and booby traps to kv 8 and conscript ppsh. Those would give this commander some late game stay. Also id like to see m42 to be changed from light vehicle at to actual infantry support weapon as this gun was used in streets of stalingrad as building breaching weapon and this could be illustrated ingame by giving it anti building and infantry properties.

Brittish: They have in my opinion 3 commanders that require rework to make them viable, but i will have to decide between advanced emplacement and artillery regiments. Artillery regiment is just too niche to be effective in 1v1s, to change this i would change this regiment from being entirely artillery based to artillery/infantry support simular to usf Infantry company. One as one idea id give them Canadian infantry squad. This squad would be Osttruppen Kind of replacement unit for brittish. They would be a lot cheaper than basic tommies and they would come in 5 man squad from the start and bolster squad upgrade would bring them to 6. However they would be only effective in cover. as other changes, id change valentine from expensive recon vehicle to aec sidegrade, with focus more on anti infantry side and with bit inferior anti armour properties. It needs aec Upgrade from second building and it would be bit more expensive than aec. Sexton needs some stat buffs to make it able to rival priest and slight popcap decrease. And what it comes to advanced emplacements, i have hard time thinking what can be done to make it practical as emplacements have been nerfed a lot and more casual community hates them. Only i can think of is giving emplacements more support focused properties, for example giving foward post more supportive abilities.

these are my opinions but id like to hear what you think of them.

i want to see airborne and rifle

OKW: id add stug to this doctrine. I see stug as good choice as it would work for commander focusing on improving vehicles, as cheaper at vehicle that can take basic tank duties would be decent addition.

I notice there is a mistake in that post

You wrongly texted word Stug IIIG -> Hetzer tank destroyer

I voted a shock troops doctrine cuz Shocks Troops need a rework.

Id also prefer rifle over armored. Might be cuz Ive always had a soft spot for that commander after its glorious vet 3 flamer/bar rifle terminators and old e8. Always felt something was missing after the rework honestly.

I wonder why NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics got so many votes?

I thought Soviet commander votes will be quite spread out among Shock Troop commanders and a few others.

I wonder why NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics got so many votes?

I thought Soviet commander votes will be quite spread out among Shock Troop commanders and a few others.

A commander that drains your muni like no tomorrow without providing anything that even reliably kills or helps you kill anything would be voted for a revamp?
Who would've thought.

And shock troops commanders aren't bad in themselves, shocks are.

And shock troops commanders aren't bad in themselves, shocks are.

Exactly

Changing shocks will bring new light on all of these commanders. No point touching them right now, better see how they work after shocks rework

btw what happen to concreate bunker ?

btw what happen to concreate bunker ?

It was left in coh1, where germans were on defensive.

Exactly

Changing shocks will bring new light on all of these commanders. No point touching them right now, better see how they work after shocks rework

I wonder how you would change them. Are shocks that bad? They are hard to use in open maps, but I read that many people think they're bad everywhere.

Ps. I don't play 1v1, but I'm curious

I wanna see 2013 walking tank shock troops again

I wonder how you would change them. Are shocks that bad? They are hard to use in open maps, but I read that many people think they're bad everywhere.

Ps. I don't play 1v1, but I'm curious

They're an elite CQC squad with no closing ability and with equal weapons on each squad member.

• CQC without a closing ability (stealth or sprint) means they usually drop models on the approach.
  
• Equal weapons means their DPS drops proportionally to their model loss. The infantry they fight usually have their DPS tied up in one or two squad weapons.
  
• Elite means all those models you drop are expensive to replace.

Compare that to their main competitor, PPSh conscripts, who are cheap to reinforce, have Oorah to get into close range fast and lose PPShes on the fourth model, not the first.

They're a difficult squad to fix though: if Shocks end up too good they become an utter nightmare.

Shocks are helpless against any kind of vehicle. This alone wouldn't be too much of a problem. However, you can't get Guards with Shocks which leaves penal or conscript support for mobile AT. It's hard to justify committing 600 manpower for a close quarters assault or flank. Since Shocks are such close range units, they're terrible at holding the front lines as well.

Shocks are actually useful lategame units, but Soviet design typically requires locking in a commander choice long before that point.

I wonder how you would change them. Are shocks that bad? They are hard to use in open maps, but I read that many people think they're bad everywhere.

Ps. I don't play 1v1, but I'm curious

They aren't bad. They just not worth getting. Look at soviet commander design. In guard rifle commander you can have guards as a long range elite infantry better than any ostheer infantry and most okw squads, you have kv-1, ml20, il-2 strafe and ppsh upgrade for cons (making then small shocks squad with extra snare and ohraa). This commander is so perfect that you don't need anything else.

Most of the players will pick long range elite squad above close range and that's the simple true. Zombii and Lago gave good arguments too.

How to balance shocks to make them more atractive without making them a walking tank shock troops... i have no idea