It´s not about 4 men vs. 6 men survivability. On paper the 6 men squad is obviously more durable.
But that doesn´t really matter in COH2 because Cons and Grens dont fight the same units. (This wasnt about Penals or Guards, or Panzerfüsiliers)
Cons have 6 men but they also face infantry that can actually wipe them on retreat with LMG42 bursts or high accuracy mobile G43s. Cons completly suck at wiping retreating Grens. Cons also face Pzgren bundle nades, Gren rifle nades, Ostheer mortar, Panzerwerfer, Brummbär etc. Meanwhile all the things that used to make Grens so squishy got nerfed. Penal moving accuracy, UKF brens, all mortars, rocket arty, LVs, tank crush etc.
I am pretty sure that in your average game of COH2 Grenadiers will not get wiped more frequently than Conscripts at this point of COH2 balance. If you watch any COH2 games with open eyes you will notice the same.
The MG42 needs to be looked, the allies mg's are dog shit.
26 Jun 2018, 17:38 PM
#61
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
26 Jun 2018, 17:40 PM
#62
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Are people comparing 4 men squad survivability vs 6 men squad survivability......? That seems pretty straightforward to me.....
As a squad Cons have more durability, but each model is 80hp, a mortar hit on a bunched 6men squad or 4men squad is the same.
Again, we are talking about if Gren are glass canon or not.
26 Jun 2018, 18:55 PM
#63
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
You contradict yourself after I delivered the maximspam replay.
No I didn't, you just pulled two comments out of context and put them next to one another. And you're calling out my manners when I wasn't even talking to you?
26 Jun 2018, 23:44 PM
#64
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
But the models have the same health! This is why snipers are the most durable squads of all
This is also why the former 2 man soviet sniper team was weak AF!!!!!111!!!!11 XD
It´s not about 4 men vs. 6 men survivability. On paper the 6 men squad is obviously more durable.
But that doesn´t really matter in COH2 because Cons and Grens dont fight the same units. (This wasnt about Penals or Guards, or Panzerfüsiliers)
Cons have 6 men but they also face infantry that can actually wipe them on retreat with LMG42 bursts or high accuracy mobile G43s. Cons completly suck at wiping retreating Grens. Cons also face Pzgren bundle nades, Gren rifle nades, Ostheer mortar, Panzerwerfer, Brummbär etc. Meanwhile all the things that used to make Grens so squishy got nerfed. Penal moving accuracy, UKF brens, all mortars, rocket arty, LVs, tank crush etc.
I am pretty sure that in your average game of COH2 Grenadiers will not get wiped more frequently than Conscripts at this point of COH2 balance. If you watch any COH2 games with open eyes you will notice the same.
Cons lack a weapon upgrade non doctrinally yes. PPSH cons on the other hand demolish LMG42 grens even if they charge from max range through neutral cover without oorah. Then factor in things like oorah and you get...... balance in all things.... Grens face guard grenades, satchels and molotovs, HM-38s, katys, and all matters of allied explosives that range from a zis barrage to the priest. The point is, explosive and ballistic damage don't care about your models RA, which is where grens defence over cons is which makes them squishier.
As a squad Cons have more durability, but each model is 80hp, a mortar hit on a bunched 6men squad or 4men squad is the same.
Again, we are talking about if Gren are glass canon or not.
^^ read part about ballistic and explosives. 6 men > 4 men against mortars etc.
27 Jun 2018, 23:22 PM
#65
Posts: 911
They have the same amount of HP than any other line infantry, so tell me how could they be less durable.
6 > 5 > 4
Any questions?
a mortar hit on a bunched 6men squad or 4men squad is the same.
You know how probability works right? As in its less probible for 6 men to occupy the kill radius of an explosive than it is for 4 men?
Imagine my playercard is here
28 Jun 2018, 00:55 AM
#66
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
Grens are better than cons. Cons are more wipe resistant. Grens are extremely efficient, Cons suck without ppsh as the game progresses.
All the HMGs are fine and balanced. Maybe change the vet 1 on Maxim like Luciano suggested.
I don’t know what you guys are arguing about.
All the HMGs are fine and balanced. Maybe change the vet 1 on Maxim like Luciano suggested.
I don’t know what you guys are arguing about.
5 Jul 2018, 08:23 AM
#67
Posts: 888
Grens are probably the best core infantry unit in the game. Maybe they're rivaled by conscripts some what but they beat the hell out of much more expensive Riflemen and Tommies.
As for the MG42, its getting hate because Allied MGs got nerfed into the ground for some pretty weak reasons considering the MG42 went on unchanged. The Vickers cannot even defend a capture point anymore, enemy sqauds can take from you before it will pin them, its friggen pathetic. I guess only Axis MGs should be allowed to pin infantry apparently.
If you're going to leave all MGs with the same stats they have now then that damn MG42 doesn't need to be in T0, swap its spot in the tech tree with the Grens.
As for the MG42, its getting hate because Allied MGs got nerfed into the ground for some pretty weak reasons considering the MG42 went on unchanged. The Vickers cannot even defend a capture point anymore, enemy sqauds can take from you before it will pin them, its friggen pathetic. I guess only Axis MGs should be allowed to pin infantry apparently.
If you're going to leave all MGs with the same stats they have now then that damn MG42 doesn't need to be in T0, swap its spot in the tech tree with the Grens.
10 Jul 2018, 21:51 PM
#68
Posts: 1392
So... my wish:
Change MG42 with MG34 and buff Grens by:
a. add a extra grenade abilty improve their defensive.
b. add a 5-men upgrade with MG40 at T3 improving their survivebility in late-game.
I could also life by removing the Faust by weaker AT-rife-grenade of campagne so light vehicles get improved. (that would also improve Osttruppen, they still have Faust and make them special)
Maybe buff Ost-Pios too, improve their accuracy and make them 220mp etc. and give.
Over all: less op MG, Grens stay usefull in late-game and Pios get their chance get a job.
EDIT: At least Vickers need a nerf, ist damage is way to op. Give it stats of Maxim and it is fine. After the MG42-MG34 shift it is ok.
Change MG42 with MG34 and buff Grens by:
a. add a extra grenade abilty improve their defensive.
b. add a 5-men upgrade with MG40 at T3 improving their survivebility in late-game.
I could also life by removing the Faust by weaker AT-rife-grenade of campagne so light vehicles get improved. (that would also improve Osttruppen, they still have Faust and make them special)
Maybe buff Ost-Pios too, improve their accuracy and make them 220mp etc. and give.
Over all: less op MG, Grens stay usefull in late-game and Pios get their chance get a job.
EDIT: At least Vickers need a nerf, ist damage is way to op. Give it stats of Maxim and it is fine. After the MG42-MG34 shift it is ok.
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