MG42 Post Patch

From the games I've played I have noticed the following:

MG42s (without suppression bulletin) are pretty dang awful at suppressing conscripts. I just thought the MG42 nerf (suppression wise) has gone a bit too far. Although I don't think the early game favors either side entirely.. any build consisting of 2 MG42s are not nearly as effective as one that consist of multiple grens and one mg42.

I have always felt that ostheer/wehr should be played by using the synergy between volksgrenadiers + mg42s to overcome a single powerful generalist unit (conscripts/rifleman). Dynamic MG42 use isn't really possible when it can no longer reliably suppress conscripts.

ATM it seems MG need 3 burst to supress conscripts even without cover.

I think it should ideally be working like that:
- red cover: 1 burst to supress
- yellow cover: 2-3 burst
- green cover: no supression

Considering the amount of squads soviets can field, blogging against an MG is now a valid tactic!
Instead of firing at one squad at a time, the MG should now be able to supress everything in it's cone of fire after 2 or so bursts

Considering the amount of squads soviets can field, blogging against an MG is now a valid tactic!
Instead of firing at one squad at a time, the MG should now be able to supress everything in it's cone of fire after 2 or so bursts

i don't get it

Considering the integral 4/6 survival handicap of Ost Support teams, it stands to reason they shouldbe "better" at performing their function, than the 6/6 Sov Support equivalents.

The survival handicap, perfectly reasonably and validly, needs to be somehow compensated for and reconciled, asymmetrically.

I don't know. MG42 suppression is a very delicate thing.

Only time I managed to take down an mg42 head on was with 2 squads and the other one got suppressed before it could get in molotov range. The mg was at half health with 2 members alive when the second squad came in and killed it.

Have to play more though. I've seen squads slipping through the firing arc when there are a lot of targets but I don't consider it really that bad thing.

It's also a lot easier to switch target with mg than in vCoh, not sure if many players do that.

Considering the integral 4/6 survival handicap of Ost Support teams, it stands to reason they shouldbe "better" at performing their function, than the 6/6 Sov Support equivalents.

The survival handicap, perfectly reasonably and validly, needs to be somehow compensated for and reconciled, asymmetrically.

They are better at their function (suppressing) It's just retarded how much cushion the soviets get now when they caught in an MG42 arc. There wasn't really a cushion before this patch but the cushion is now too big is my problem.

Of course this is all relative to COH 1.

Considering the integral 4/6 survival handicap of Ost Support teams, it stands to reason they shouldbe "better" at performing their function, than the 6/6 Sov Support equivalents.

The survival handicap, perfectly reasonably and validly, needs to be somehow compensated for and reconciled, asymmetrically.

Will you stop posting the same thing in every thread. This is about suppression not endurance.

Every thread I've gone to lately you try to start the same topic and fill up a whole page arguing. It's COH.org not Nullest.org.

They are better at their function (suppressing) It's just retarded how much cushion the soviets get now when they caught in an MG42 arc. There wasn't really a cushion before this patch but the cushion is now too big is my problem.

Of course this is all relative to COH 1.

Personally I believe that we have been a bit spoiled by what the unit did before. It's the same price as a conscript squad and it has the ability to negate an entire push. It will still do that, but will give the player on the recieving end 2 or 3 more seconds to react rather then the one we had before.

Either way I think we need a bit more time to judge. It might need a slight increase.

This problem is very subtle but I think it's worth mentioning

Will you stop posting the same thing in every thread. This is about suppression not endurance.

Every thread I've gone to lately you try to start the same topic and fill up a whole page arguing. It's COH.org not Nullest.org.

As has been pointed out by many other posters, unit balance is a wide concept.
That also needs to include consideration of Ost Support integral 4/6 survival.

Sorry if my posting asshurts you for some personal reason that Igaf about.

Try to stay ontopic and talk about the issues, not persons.
I know thats hard for you, but Im not your boyfriend, or even your friend.
There is nothing personal whatsoever between us, and therefore your personal attacks are a complete waste.

How about you stop using it the way you've used it before the patch?
I see this a lot in the recent games.
MG42 shouldn't lead the attack anymore nor should it be a stand alone defense point/ unit.
Move it behind your Grenadiers line and use as a support weapon it was always supposed to be and you will be all right.

any build consisting of 2 MG42s are not nearly as effective as one that consist of multiple grens and one mg42.

that's my definition of a support unit

also, just because sometimes it could take 3 burst doesn't mean it's always like that, I've seen anywhere from 1 to 3.

anyway, this game is finally fun to play as Soviet (mainly because it's not restricting you to one static build anymore) and we'll see if Germans will need some buffs, but they clearly won't come in the form of an mg42 re-buff

im so glad german players are finally feeling the pinch

ur mg is now like our mg, but with better radius, so stop complaining.

also suppression works on one squad, if you blob your conscripts and you move with them in distance of like 2-3 metres between squads you wont get your all conscripts suppressed

im so glad german players are finally feeling the pinch

ur mg is now like our mg, but with better radius, so stop complaining.

These "your" and "our" arguments need to go from balance discussions. It's like admitting you are playing one faction only (yes, a fanboy). Seriously.

How about you stop using it the way you've used it before the patch?
I see this a lot in the recent games.
MG42 shouldn't lead the attack anymore nor should it be a stand alone defense point/ unit.
Move it behind your Grenadiers line and use as a support weapon it was always supposed to be and you will be all right.

Implying I did that.

Nice imaginary world of false implications you seem to operate from.
What evidence do you have to claim I did/didnt do those things?
None. Just some kneejerk implications based on your own imagination.

Maybe I should do like you do, and falsely imply that you did the wrong things to counter Ost?
Shall we have a bwttle of imaginations and false implications?
Wtf man.

Ive always used MGs as backline support. I didnt spam them either. 1 max.

im so glad german players are finally feeling the pinch

ur mg is now like our mg, but with better radius, so stop complaining.

And yet another guy who completely ignores, overlooks and conveniently forgets that MG42s are only 4/6.

A seriously sorry and unfortunate, yet constantly recurring omission.

Generally made by the same guys who falsely and repeatedly insist that Grens vs Cons is not equal.

Implying I did that.

Nice imaginary world of false implications you seem to operate from.
What evidence do you have to claim I did/didnt do those things?
None. Just some kneejerk implications based on your own imagination.

Maybe I should do like you do, and falsely imply that you did the wrong things to counter Ost?
Shall we have a bwttle of imaginations and false implications?
Wtf man.

Ive always used MGs as backline support. I didnt spam them either. 1 max.

I base my judgement on my observations, my own experience and on data provided.
This behavior I've observed in game.

I've always used MG42 as a supportive unit. Never built more than one and never sent it alone. It worked for me before the patch, it works now as well.
My usual BO is G, MG, G, some mortar when needed (or MHT), T2, SC, PG (dont upgarde them with Panzerfausts) or 3rd G squad T3 for PzIV building PG squad (upgarde with shreks) in the meantime. After that I'd adopt to what my opponent have.

Then we agree, and operate from the same basis.

Im not what you presented me as, nor under any illusion that HMGs should be solo frontline units, except in specific circumstances.

Id appreciate if you dont infer otherwise about me.

Inhad experience with 100% suppression setup teams already from DoW2.
I know and understand the issues, as well as whats what.

My central point, is on stressing the Support team survival discrepancy.

Especially inlight of the frankly shocking amount of people who think MG42s survival, even before the patch, was somehow greater than Maxims. It wasnt, and still isnt. Its less. Perpetuating that myth is anathema to objective balance discussion.

Extending from that, Im not saying that Ost teams should, by rote, simply be brought to Sov Support survival standards.
I appreciate and value asymmetric design between the factions, as well as the interplay of the wider rosters overall, as much as anyone.

HOWEVER

I do want to stress, severly, and incontrovertibly, that this disparity in survival of Support teams exists.
Its not just the HMGs either, its ALL of the Support units. Including even Sniper.

Surely you also recognise that tgis is not a central design element to be ignored when discussing the efficacy of the mirrored Support teams?

To me, Im perfectly ok with Ost Support having 4/6 the survival.
Makes sense for good and dynamic asymmwtric design. It adds flavor and distinction to the factions.

BUT

I also strongly feel this dispsrity should not be understated. There should be, to me, logically, a concrete and apparent advantage vested in Ost teams, to compensate for that integral survial difference.
To me, it means Ost support teams should, in one form or another, outperform Sov support teams.

Do you see what I mean and how I rationalise that?

Is that really such an outrageous, unrealistic, biased or stupid position for me to put forward?