Soviet AT-gun

I suppose something to consider is that the ZiS isn't an AT gun, but a field gun, as described. Whether this is an actual difference, is beyond my knowledge, but in my conjecture, I assume that a field gun means it fills a more versatile role.

Wouldn't seem to me to be a bad idea to add a muni-cost ability for having AP rounds for 10secs or so, though! Would happily exchange that for the barrage ability, if necessary, too.

PAKs would need a buff to make them maintain the same usefulness in their role, too, mind, but that's for a thread about the Pak!

Both AT guns miss far too often to be an effective counter against turreted tanks - unless of course, you have greater number of AT guns than tanks.

I disagree with ZiS 3 "good arty" argument, maybe it's looking cool, but it's pretty much ridiculous for ATG...(Yes, it's still mostly ATG and can't fire like howitzer) ZiS 3 was very fine and extremely deadly weapon, even german engineers admitted that ZiS is slightly better than any German equivalent after examining few captured ZiS3's.

For infantry support better would be use of infantry support gun, pretty much tiny howitzer (baby version of Brummbär and similar to short gun StuG) firing short range like AT gun and with barrage ability like ZiS 3 now.
Best exaple of IFG's are soviet 76mm regimental gun (look very similar to tiny AT gun used in campaign mode) and german Le.iG 18.

Tiny and cute, but very capable as well

Both AT guns really need better stopping power (Yet die horribly if well flanked), especially when It comes to accuracy and maybe bit of penetration and damage buff at very short range.
For example, I get my 2x ATG's killed in matter of seconds by Ostwind who blitzkrieg head-on from maximum range, hit mine, get AT naded... and still be able to flank both guns, because from 4 total shots any of them ever hit the tank.
Same situation with Pak 40, where I easily flank and destroyed few PAK crews just by charging T70/T34 head-on on the gun and don't get hit - I think that needs to be looked on.

In CoH ATG Has some area denial (partially psychological) effect against armor, because You didn't really want to face ATG's barrel, In COH2 I don't feel any serious danger from ATG's side.

People are going to scream at me for this idea, but perhaps the "stopping power" of AT guns could be similar in concept to some other shooters. Not more damage, but instead if a tank is moving towards the AT gun, the shot causes a small bit of slowdown on hit.

This does require the addition of a new code and system to the game, which is problematic, but I really like the concept in other games.

Instead of straight damage, you have the potential for more shots on you if you charge straight at a gun.

However, the slow down isn't applied if the tank is moving away or sideways from the AT gun.

Eh, I can hope for DoW3 or CoH3.

Other, more reasonable, options are to increase the responsiveness of the AT gun in general. Also making it so that the crew not actively manning the gun are prioritized for damage and death, so that AT guns aren't interrupted so much when firing or moving, which causes the agonizingly long animation to move over and replace the downed crewman.

Also, I'd love to see the German infantry gun make an appearance, I love that little slugger when playing tabletop miniature games. And it'd make a nice early weapon team that can counter things like Scout Cars and T-70s.

Also, I'd love to see the German infantry gun make an appearance, I love that little slugger when playing tabletop miniature games. And it'd make a nice early weapon team that can counter things like Scout Cars and T-70s.

Yes, It would be very elegant and versatile weapon able to kill infantry(unlike adding another early ATG) and lighter armor (HEAT round shot ammo ability, dealing serious punch + engine damage like AT nades), and be more fuel effective/less OP unit than early short barrel StuG/SU122, due to small mobility and no armor protection.

When it comes to slowing down units, we had "crew shock" status, but I guess it would be too severe... I would rather prefer to get good accuracy buff and maybe damage bonus at very short range, so we could punish vehicle from sitting directly (like few meters) under ATG barrel or use close proximity bonus for true-sight ambushes :-).

EDIT_1: Nice LeiG 18 video:

Show Spoiler

ZiS AT barrage is very useful in early game to counter german bunker and knock out german HMG in building or placed in a good location which could be hard to flank etc. so it is good enough if Zis got more buff then they better buff Pak too since pak is quite useless and i haven't build a single one of them in the last 10 games i think

ZiS AT barrage is very useful in early game to counter german bunker and knock out german HMG in building or placed in a good location which could be hard to flank etc. so it is good enough if Zis got more buff then they better buff Pak too since pak is quite useless and i haven't build a single one of them in the last 10 games i think

The pak is only useless because the germans have better options in the stug and PZ4. The pak is more of a panic unit for if you have niether, but both could use an accuracy boost. If you manage to actually get a tank in that tiny arc of a slow unit I expect it to actually do something.

The pak is only useless because the germans have better options in the stug and PZ4. The pak is more of a panic unit for if you have niether, but both could use an accuracy boost. If you manage to actually get a tank in that tiny arc of a slow unit I expect it to actually do something.

Well, PAK should perform at least as good damage and penetration as P4, but targeting speed accuracy and ROF can be much better because It's on fixed position and had larger crew operating the gun, so DPS should be larger than P4.

BTW, anyone can confirm how tanks accuracy is affected when tank is moving ?

Well, PAK should perform at least as good damage and penetration as P4, but targeting speed accuracy and ROF can be much better because It's on fixed position and had larger crew operating the gun, so DPS should be larger than P4.

BTW, anyone can confirm how tanks accuracy is affected when tank is moving ?

as far as i know, all tanks have a .5 accuracy modifier when moving. keep in mind, thats only accuracy, not scatter. tanks rely on scatter to hit infantry, so tanks AI is not affected by moving.