Give me a reason why KV8 is OP?

Overall, I think the KV-8 may be a leftover from the (way too strong) beta flamethrowers. I don't know the whole patch history of closed beta but when looking at the stats it looks like it was the only flamethrower that simply did not have its stats reduced.

This is likely the case as the campaign version of the German halftrack roasts just as fast as the KV-8. It could even be that the KV-8 multiplayer unit was originally intended for campaign and that got mixed up somehow.

In any case, I sincerely hope it is being looked at in this patch as it does classify as a "heavy" tank (even though it costs less than a Panzer IV if you include teching).

@BabaRoga: back-tech if you don't feel comfortable with tier 2 opening.

This thread has devolved into pointless bickering, but I thought I'd bring up one interesting bit for anyone still unsure about the KV8.

When the best counter-argument is "it doesn't always insta-gib squads if you instantly retreat them upon contact", I think that alone speaks wonders. If the unit requires instant retreat or risk being wiped really fast, that's an issue.

Some units require retreating reasonably quickly to avoid getting wiped, like Ostwind, or are slower/take a while to close the distance to effective range, like Shock/PGren, but nothing comes close to the KV8.

Again, bad doctrine, bad faction, bad cost, whatever. None of it justifies a unit like that. Fixing the doctrine, fixing the faction, tweaking the costs will all come.

Nobody sane is saying "nerf KV8 but ignore any German OP stuff like MG42". This is a thread about KV8, so focus on that.

My 2 cents:

The KV8 is, without a doubt, an overpowered unit. However, considering the current balance and metagame it kind of feels fair to have that 1 unit that's actually good when the rest of your army sucks as much.

Considering the current metagame I say don't nerf it.
Solely looking at the KV8 as a unit I'd say it should definitely be nerfed.

Just give a slight Nerf to the duration of its flame and maybe a little to its ridiculous armor. Badabingbadaboom!! Its fine. Still strong to kill units who decide to fight it and still has durability to hold off some p4 shells, but not multiple german tanks.

i dont think the issue is flame duration or even its armor. its the damage. 1 shot from 1 of the halftracks flamers does 10 damage. 1 shot from the kv8 does 40 damage. thats the equivalent of an ostwind shell that has 100% accuracy, much bigger aoe, and a chance to instantly kill infantry.

people say ostwind is ridiculous, yet most of its shots miss. the reason it still does damage (but reduced damage, if you understand aoe in this game) is because of its aoe radius. the kv8 does FULL damage since it never misses. its fine that its a heavy tank and can take a beating. the damage is just insane. and for only 20 gas more.

could you imagine how many threads there would be if the ostwind performed that well?

Heres a reason.

Im having a great game, and all is even, its back and forth we both have preserved our units well and have similar fuel count. I get 2 P4's out, he gets a t34 and a KV8. From then on, the balance has gone completely in his favour. His Kv8 roasts all my infantry, then when my p4's show up he switches gun instantly and brings in his t34. His infantry are unopposed due to me franticly retreating and losing most of my units to the 1 sec flame headshots. A few At nades and good rear shots with the KV8 and my p4's are gone.

Please explain how this is not imbalanced.

Heres a reason.

Im having a great game, and all is even, its back and forth we both have preserved our units well and have similar fuel count. I get 2 P4's out, he gets a t34 and a KV8. From then on, the balance has gone completely in his favour. His Kv8 roasts all my infantry, then when my p4's show up he switches gun instantly and brings in his t34. His infantry are unopposed due to me franticly retreating and losing most of my units to the 1 sec flame headshots. A few At nades and good rear shots with the KV8 and my p4's are gone.

Please explain how this is not imbalanced.

It's not imbalanced because you were supposed to win with imba German MG42 and LMG Grens 20 minutes earlier...

(j/k)
I pretty much agree with Stoffa's post above.

@BabaRoga: back-tech if you don't feel comfortable with tier 2 opening.

Huh? I have no problem defeating kv8 commander, I also often P'shreck KV8 without having my PG's instantly disappear like many here claim, and/or fire of couple AT gun rounds on it.

Even base rush fails to eradicate my PG's most of the time, because stug or Piv is just about ready to come out when that happens, and you do know you can move your PG's around buildings and flank kv8, its not illegal to separate them from blob (it can only flame in one direction)...

Maybe its better idea to think about your tech-ing vs KV8, than worrying about me being comfy with T2 opening

Huh? I have no problem defeating kv8 commander, I also often P'shreck KV8 without having my PG's instantly disappear like many here claim, and/or fire of couple AT gun rounds on it.

Even base rush fails to eradicate my PG's most of the time, because stug or Piv is just about ready to come out when that happens, and you do know you can move your PG's around buildings and flank kv8, its not illegal to separate them from blob (it can only flame in one direction)...

Maybe its better idea to think about your tech-ing vs KV8, than worrying about me being comfy with T2 opening

I never said I have trouble defeating the KV-8 commander either and nobody ever said that it is unbeatable. Not unbeatable does not mean it is not overpowered.

The MG spam is not unbeatable (because otherwise Soviets as a faction would probably have 0% win rate) but it is overpowered. What part of that don't you understand when we talk about the KV-8 in the same regard?

I never said I have trouble defeating the KV-8 commander either and nobody ever said that it is unbeatable. Not unbeatable does not mean it is not overpowered.

The MG spam is not unbeatable (because otherwise Soviets as a faction would probably have 0% win rate) but it is overpowered. What part of that don't you understand when we talk about the KV-8 in the same regard?

I believe I repeatedly said in this thread that I agree that KV8 is overpowering and beast that is difficult to contain on the field for short period of time.

I dispute claims that it is instantly frying everything and that there is no escape from it. (doesn't happen to me, nor am I able to do it to any decent player)

KV8 is deliberately designed like that, that is why it costs so much fuel and handicaps Soviet player if it doesn't achieve complete domination and catches German player of guard.
It doesn't unbalance final outcome of the game and nerfing KV8 without improving that particular commander would result in that commander being just about useless (even with kv8 it is not very popular choice because it is not flexible and as I said its high risk/high gain tactic, more risk than gain ATM) at least I don't use it much, nor do I come across it very often

Now if you are demanding this commander's whole design and intended tactical use be changed because you don't like dealing with KV8, thats your right.
By all means do demand that it be nerfed, changed all altered any way you see fit.

Personally, I can't agree with that because for me it doesn't alter balance of game when playing vs KV8 (as annoying and frustrating as I find dealing with it)

I understand completely your point on the issue, I just don't agree overall

High-risk, high reward. The KV-8 can not defend itself against enemy armour with its pea-shooter they call a cannon. When successful, the KV-8 will end games. On failure, the KV-8 will end games. A good Soviet player knows when to play that card... and when not to.

as long as PZIV is called FINE when it can smash a T-34/85 head on with ease and 2 PZIV can deal with a JS-2 no problem, KV-8 is FINE

My point, PZIV a Tier3 medium tank should not have the same damage alpha(160) as a JS-2 and Tiger or Panther tank, and reload is the fastest among them

as long as PZIV is called FINE when it can smash a T-34/85 head on with ease and 2 PZIV can deal with a JS-2 no problem, KV-8 is FINE

My point, PZIV a Tier3 medium tank should not have the same damage alpha(160) as a JS-2 and Tiger or Panther tank, and reload is the fastest among them

you conveniently ignored the fact that the p4 also has the weakest armor and lowest penetration out of all of them.

you conveniently ignored the fact that the p4 also has the weakest armor and lowest penetration out of all of them.

no, I just don't want to continue, the soviet T-34 series has only 120 armor, PZIV with 110pen has 91.666% of chance penetrating T-34's frontal armor, but T-34/76 with 80 pen has only 50% chance of penetrating mean while the T-34/85 with 110 has 68.75% penetrating PZIV's front,but, T-34/85 took 9.17 sec to reload it's main gun, while PZIV only takes 5.7 sec.

PZIV has the best armor of medium tanks in game(despite Panther), and best ROF, pen is same as T-34/85, why you call it weakest?

ITT: People ADMITTING KV8 is OP, yet incomprehensibly trying to claim that it should not be nerfed, because of OTHER units.

Its a good thing Devs wont give a goddam about crap like this.

The KV8 is, without a doubt, an overpowered unit.

Solely looking at the KV8 as a unit I'd say it should definitely be nerfed.

It's not imbalanced because you were supposed to win with imba German MG42 and LMG Grens 20 minutes earlier...

I believe I repeatedly said in this thread that I agree that KV8 is overpowering

as long as PZIV is called FINE when it can smash a T-34/85 head on with ease and 2 PZIV can deal with a JS-2 no problem, KV-8 is FINE

Pretty astonishing.

It would never in a million years enter into my head to try and justify an OP unit remaining as it is, because of meta or the stats of other OP units. I cannot in anyway relate to a person who thinks that is "good balance".

ITT: People ADMITTING KV8 is OP, yet incomprehensibly trying to claim that it should not be nerfed, because of OTHER units.

Its a good thing Devs wont give a goddam about crap like this.



Pretty astonishing.

It would never in a million years enter into my head to try and justify an OP unit remaining as it is, because of meta or the stats of other OP units. I cannot in anyway relate to a person who thinks that is "good balance".

said by someone spend 98.99% of time playing German, cool story bro, like always

Yes, said by someone who plays exclusively Germans.

Never, ever, in any way shape or form would I consider it good balance discussion, to try and justify the OPness of a unit, that I ACKNOWLEDGE is OP, by trying to derail its OPness onto the OPness of some other unit.

This is simply something you do not do in balance discussion.

Its not ok to recognise a unit is OP, and yet then rage against people who are also saying that it is, but telling them they are "wrong", because you think its ok for a unit to be OP, if some other random unit, is OP.

It is, for lack of a better description, fucking retarded.

Imagine a Dev showing up and saying:
-"Yeah, sure I consider MG42s OP, but I think thats fine, cos so are KV8s."

Cos thats what your doing. Atleast 4 of you with proven quotations.
Absolutely unbelievable. I'd be fucking ashamed of myself if I was one of you.

Yes, said by someone who plays exclusively Germans.

Never, ever, in any way shape or form would I consider it good balance discussion, to try and justify the OPness of a unit, that I ACKNOWLEDGE is OP, by trying to derail its OPness onto the OPness of some other unit.

This is simply something you do not do in balance discussion.

Its not ok to recognise a unit is OP, and yet then rage against people who are also saying that it is, but telling them they are "wrong", because you think its ok for a unit to be OP, if some other random unit, is OP.

It is, for lack of a better description, fucking retarded.

Imagine a Dev showing up and saying:
-"Yeah, sure I consider MG42s OP, but I think thats fine, cos so are KV8s."

Cos thats what your doing. Atleast 4 of you with proven quotations.
Absolutely unbelievable. I'd be fucking ashamed of myself if I was one of you.

Quote from someone who have been ashamed

Can you stop being such an asshole?

Nullist - (j/k) = joking in case you didn't realize with my comment.

@Ekko Tek: Yes, I noticed the j/k. But since it was followed up with agreeing with Stoffa that KV8 is indeed OP and should be nerfed, whats the problem with nerfing it then.

You agree it should be nerfed, and so does he, and the others I quoted.

I can provide even more quotes from this thread where people who rage AGAINST it being nerfed, provenly and clearly state that it is, indeed OP.

Why all the resistance and anger then.
Everyone agrees it is OP, and should be nerfed.

@UGBEAR: Ashamed of playing the faction I prefer to play? Nope.

OT: Everyone agrees KV8 is OP and should be nerfed.
/Thread.