if oorah got increased to 10 munis

if oorah got increased to 10 munis, indirectly buffing the germans, why is there no decreased suppression while active? it doesnt have to be like fire up where it basically negates any suppression but imo it should take more than one burst from mg42 to suppress you if you have to waste 10 muntions getting caught in the 180 degree arch of the german mg

Fire-Up was IMHO the most stupid thing in vCOH. If you charge MG you either got insta killed or suppresed no running and gunning. If you want less suppresion with Ooorah then only with huge damage taken.

its because oorah isnt meant to allow conscripts to soak up mg fire. it allows them to move faster, so use it to stay out of the mg arc.

the abilitys cost went up because it was too good for its cost. just because the cost went up doesnt mean they should then buff it, that defeats the purpose of the cost increase. by that logic, once they buff it, they would need to increase the cost again, then buff it again, then increase the cost.....

the game is completely broken at the moment.

- MG42 can supress instantly
- maps like semois are unwinnable for soviets
- grenadiers win 2 vs. 1 vs conscripts and engis
- AC murders M3 and infantry
- soviet has no T2 removal except guards
- paks are completely worthless
- pzIV still roll over everything short of SU-85 and can drive through 2 Paks like they aren't even there
- running flanks with conscripts even with oorah is a completly worthless excercise
- the RNG is absolute shit


winning as soviet relies on gimmicky killstreaks with M3 and T70. i hope that answers your question.

To answer your question, they should have timed the increase in oorah cost with the planned nerf of the MG42, that would have been more fair and balanced.

Last time I checked holding your fuel and going T70 and then T34 is still extremely viable. Just don't lose your fuel and cut off as much as you can.

Before asking for reduced suppression... be careful what you wish for. Less suppression damage = more damage taken. The reason an MG42 doesn't fuck up everything instantly is because suppression modifiers make units take less damage. You try charge a suppression immune squad into an MG42 and it'll get fucked.

the game is completely broken at the moment.

- MG42 can supress instantly
- maps like semois are unwinnable for soviets
- grenadiers win 2 vs. 1 vs conscripts and engis
- AC murders M3 and infantry
- soviet has no T2 removal except guards
- paks are completely worthless
- pzIV still roll over everything short of SU-85 and can drive through 2 Paks like they aren't even there
- running flanks with conscripts even with oorah is a completly worthless excercise
- the RNG is absolute shit


winning as soviet relies on gimmicky killstreaks with M3 and T70. i hope that answers your question.

I would add T70 infantry crush in there. I lost 3 squads worth of Grenadiers in about 3 seconds because they were bugged out trying to Faust and were getting run over.

I would add T70 infantry crush in there. I lost 3 squads worth of Grenadiers in about 3 seconds because they were bugged out trying to Faust and were getting run over.

I already mentioned gimmicky killstreaks.

Before asking for reduced suppression... be careful what you wish for.

Most people just wish for flanking to be more rewarding and conscripts dealing more than zero damage.

I already mentioned gimmicky killstreaks.



Most people just wish for flanking to be more rewarding and conscripts dealing more than zero damage.

relic is going to make flanking more rewarding. i didnt know conscripts did 0 damage though. last time i checked they had almost identical dps to grens.

relic is going to make flanking more rewarding. i didnt know conscripts did 0 damage though. last time i checked they had almost identical dps to grens.

grens get an upgrade. would actually be cool if the conscripts could pop an equally big LMG (temporary) for munis after oorahing.

i have lost with a engi + conscript vs a single gren, so yes, about 0 damage.

grens get an upgrade. would actually be cool if the conscripts could pop an equally big LMG (temporary) for munis after oorahing.

i have lost with a engi + conscript vs a single gren, so yes, about 0 damage.

Grenadiers mow down unarmored infantry with the LMG upgrade; that's kind of the point for investing that hefty 60 munis instead of saving it for the flametrack.

If you're talking about versus an unupgraded grenadier squad, then that's just some terrible luck (either that, or you were in red cover with both squads and he was in green).

the game is completely broken at the moment.


- maps like semois are unwinnable for soviets

Remember the Semois Pin that Wehrmacht used to pull in VCoH.

With cons with no suppression resistance and fuel points in the middle of the map, the Semois pin is even easier to pull in COH2

If you're talking about versus an unupgraded grenadier squad, then that's just some terrible luck (either that, or you were in red cover with both squads and he was in green).

Yes I was talking about an unupgraded grenadier squad. Happened in the first 3 minutes of the game. All squads where in yellow cover. My reaction:

the game is completely broken at the moment.

- MG42 can supress instantly
- maps like semois are unwinnable for soviets
- grenadiers win 2 vs. 1 vs conscripts and engis
- AC murders M3 and infantry
- soviet has no T2 removal except guards
- paks are completely worthless
- pzIV still roll over everything short of SU-85 and can drive through 2 Paks like they aren't even there
- running flanks with conscripts even with oorah is a completly worthless excercise
- the RNG is absolute shit


winning as soviet relies on gimmicky killstreaks with M3 and T70. i hope that answers your question.

Breaking down your points

1. Yes, and it's problematic.
2. It isn't. Personally I find it less challenging than Langreskaya.
3. Doubt. Grens are marginally better than conscripts.
4. Mauls M3s, yes, can also be killed by 1 mine, an AT nade + small arms fire... the vet gain on it does seem too quick right now but other than that it's fine.
5. Except ZiS guns, mines and AT nades.
6. PAKs are pretty bad. ZiS is alright.
7. Protip: point the AT guns at the P-IV.
8. Not rewarded enough, yes; worthless, no.
9. ...

Breaking down your points

1. Yes, and it's problematic.
2. It isn't. Personally I find it less challenging than Langreskaya.
3. Doubt. Grens are marginally better than conscripts.
4. Mauls M3s, yes, can also be killed by 1 mine, an AT nade + small arms fire... the vet gain on it does seem too quick right now but other than that it's fine.
5. Except ZiS guns, mines and AT nades.
6. PAKs are pretty bad. ZiS is alright.
7. Protip: point the AT guns at the P-IV.
8. Not rewarded enough, yes; worthless, no.
9. ...

2. Semoskiy is better early game (thanks to the larger size of the map, the buildings and cover and generally very tight paths so mine kills can be relatively easy to score). It's worse than Langres late game for much the same reasons. On langres you need to survive until late game, on Semoskiy you need to win before late game. While maintaining a reasonable grip on the map in both scenarios.

3. It's not really even a marginal advantage, they very consistently beat conscripts in a straight out shootout (nevermind if the grenadiers pull out a riflenade). Occasionally lucking out and taking out a weak second squad like a combat engineer seems about on par.

4. Except after vet2. Also small arms fire is pretty ineffective against the scout car as they have a less than 10% chance to penetrate on any given attack. Think of how effective conscript dps is against an MG42 team, and then think what it would be like if they only did one tenth of it. Even if you land an at nade it can be extremely hard sometimes to kill the scout car if it was facing your way when it got atnaded because of the relatively high armor value.

5. & 6. As a Soviet player, I'd ALWAYS give a ZiS in order to get a PaK. The fabulous antitank ability on vet1 PaKs and the faster reload speed are both worth far more than the stupid munition sink ability on the ZiS.

7. Protip: Move PIV, it moves faster than the ZiS repositions. Also you can smoke if it looks like the ZiS might actually damage you.

8. It's pretty worthless because running a flank on an MG42 just puts you in the position where you now have to micro that conscript squad for the next 30 seconds-1 minute while avoiding the mg42 instant pin and several squad deaths that follow. It's still better than the alternative of just running into the arc and getting pinned, but considering the effort involved it doesn't really seem worth it to try and flank with 'scripts. Better leave it to penals and guards who can nade/satchel MG42s for a pretty much guaranteed kill.

Breaking down your points

1. Yes, and it's problematic.
2. It isn't. Personally I find it less challenging than Langreskaya.
3. Doubt. Grens are marginally better than conscripts.
4. Mauls M3s, yes, can also be killed by 1 mine, an AT nade + small arms fire... the vet gain on it does seem too quick right now but other than that it's fine.
5. Except ZiS guns, mines and AT nades.
6. PAKs are pretty bad. ZiS is alright.
7. Protip: point the AT guns at the P-IV.
8. Not rewarded enough, yes; worthless, no.
9. ...

3. Grens aren't better than conscripts. Their DPS is EXACTLY the same. Vet 2 Gren upgrade cancels out Vet 2 Conscript upgrade (And vice versa). Only reason people seem to have the assumption that conscripts are margially worse is because, due to the bigger squad size, positioning in cover is significantly harder due to the fact that the shitty pathing always leads to one conscript entity hopping into the middle of the f**king road.

4. AC is fine. It rewards heavy micro while also being suseptible to virtually any form of damage in the game. Once it hits vet 2 though... it's basically a downgunned PIV.

6. PaKs are extremely effective. Where is all this hate for the PaK coming from? Not only does it fire extremely quickly, it also does huge amounts of damage. At Vet3, it does roughly the stock damage of the elefant/Pak43 and because it's a glass cannon unit, it gets to Vet 3 pretty quickly.

7. lol

8. Make molotovs free. I honestly don't understand why you have to pay fuel and manpower for an upgrade which is inferior to the free(Albeit slightly late unlock) rifle-nade. That way, flanking is suddenly rewarding again!

would definitely like green cover to prevent suppression. I'm not sure how the numbers are done, but it would be great if it could be arranged that it only takes "most" of a squad being in cover for them to receive the cover benefit as a squad(if only to thwart suppression)rather than the other way around.

Maybe oorah should provide a damage or accuracy increase at close range(or maybe a faster firing rate with lower accuracy that would have the same effect at close range?), nothing too extreme, but that would be one way to address the lackluster flanking against mg42s, and it would cost 10 munis a pop. This wouldn't really address the poor scaling of conscripts but it would give them some extra oomph in the early game against unupgraded grens and mgs, probably giving russia a slight edge in that stage of the game.

It would do nothing to address flanking against maxim's either, but sounds like people are saying those are pretty lack-luster these days, so i don't know that that's a problem.

3. Vet 2 Gren upgrade cancels out Vet 2 Conscript upgrade (And vice versa).

this isnt really true.conscripts gain +25% armor at vet 2 and +78% accuracy. grens get +125% armor. its at vet 3 when these bonuses even out. cons get +80% more armor (multiplied by the vet 2 bonus) which gives them a total of +125% armor. and grens get the +78% accuracy at vet 3.

@Cruzz: 3) No, grenadiers do not "consistently" beat conscripts (unless upgraded). If they are both in the open, they will perform exactly the same. Grenadiers are slightly better in green cover because there are less models, making it easier for all of the entities to be behind the cover, whilst conscripts are better in buildings because all of them immediately get the garrison bonus and there are 6 rifles shooting instead of 4. Grenadiers also cannot solo and win against a conscript and an engineer.

4) AC is not a problem; vet 2 AC is. Just needs to be a little more expensive in manpower which also increases XP needed to vet.

@Albus: 8) Molotovs are not free because unlike rifle-nades they offer area denial, including garrisonable structures. If a grenadier shoots a riflenade at a house, all your squad needs to do is jump out and jump back in, rendering it completely useless (unless it magically collapses the house and kills most of your squad, but that's a separate issue that has a thread already).

As long as we're on the subject of how much conscript abilities cost, does anyone know why you have to pay to unlock their anti-tank grenade and molotov? I would assume it's to make up for the fact that they don't require their own building, but it seems a bit unreasonable to charge so much for each of the upgrades - because honestly the abilities are the only reason to use conscripts, since they do so little damage otherwise. It's been bugging me because I'm trying to use fewer conscripts recently (1-2 squads), but in the end it doesn't really save much money since you still need to buy the upgrades for the conscripts to have any value. It would be more reasonable if the abilities also unlocked for penal squads, at least the anti-tank grenade.

As for oorah, I'm surprised they didn't try a smaller price increase first. Doubling its cost was a drastic change, and I honestly think it's overpriced now. Oorah already has a significant drawback built in, since it prevents the units from firing at all while moving.

I'm really disappointed though that there isn't an upgrade to make conscripts better in the lategame, like BARs in vCOH - and even the doctrinal PPSHs are outclassed by the standard LMG upgrade. Soviets are pushed to make a bunch of these conscript squads so they can throw AT grenades to disable tanks (though that function just got nerfed in a huge way), but they don't really have any further value and simply end up as fodder once LMGs and PGs hit the field.