Soviet Faction

Conscripts won't ever reach an AC and Guards won't kill them either, especially not if vetted. Another upside is that AC counters the T-70 the soviet will be desperately trying to press against your T2 spam.

I have to agree with Raw here, Every time Germans pull out 1-2 ac's, chance of wining as Soviets decreases by about 50% (2v2 and higher)
It really forces Soviet players hand in going for that Su85 and skipping t2 and t3.
Because second player is free to tech up to Piv. Couple of scout cars and mg's will keep 2 Soviet players on back foot for a long time...

Conscripts won't ever reach an AC and Guards won't kill them either, especially not if vetted. Another upside is that AC counters the T-70 the soviet will be desperately trying to press against your T2 spam.

Okay so a fucking AC counters the T70 does it? Since when? Are we playing the same fucking game?

Okay so a fucking AC counters the T70 does it? Since when? Are we playing the same fucking game?

It has always been the most reliable counter to T70s at vet2 (because PaKs can't hit them that well and shreks cost a decent amount and have mobility issues+occasionally get killed between the required one reload), which it will always have if it has survived until a T70 is out. Please don't overestimate T70 capability against vehicles, it really is a pure anti-infantry vehicle, unlike the scout car which kills everything that isn't a medium/heavy tank.

why would it be that 99% of the time 80% of ppl are searching as German. Because all the normal players play a game as soviets and think screw this, this is way to difficult compared to the other side.

Or it's just another case of the of not just being as visually compelling or interesting as the German faction.

I feel it's more like the same god damn thing with Tyranids from Dawn of War 2. Incredibly strong faction through-out the games life-span, but just not very interesting or that interesting to play as. I have the rough same win % as I have with germans as I have with soviets. Taking into consideration with disputes and sync-errors. And that's top 10 in 2v2,3v3 & 4v4 for that matter.

But nevertheless, we face some really recognizeable people and it's usually the same story. It's predictable to know what people will do, it's when they do something that's unpredictable that it gets more tougher. And that's my biggest gripe on players in general. Oh noes, playing against germans - gee wizz, I wonder if they're going to get a MG transition into Flamehalftrack with a possibility of ACs, then try to advance to T3 and spam P4s all day. That's like the story of my life.

It really forces Soviet players hand in going for that Su85 and skipping t2 and t3.

SU-76s are far better optimized and better timing purchase to deal with T2/T3 investments anyway. Spearheading into SU85s as a first purchase is extremely dumb if you're on the backfoot. SU-76s will still be able to lay down pressure & soft-counter T2/T3s, let-alone any defensive shaningans of the germans can be thwarted with the barrage.

Besides, T3 as soviets is EXTREMELY good. One should still go for T4 tho as a good backup support for T34s to help lay down the pressure, but the T34 when they grow in numbers is no joke. Russian snowball and wins mid-late game hands down with ease.

It really forces Soviet players hand in going for that Su85 and skipping t2 and t3.


SU-76s are far better optimized and better timing purchase to deal with T2/T3 investments anyway. Spearheading into SU85s as a first purchase is extremely dumb if you're on the backfoot. SU-76s will still be able to lay down pressure & soft-counter T2/T3s, let-alone any defensive shaningans of the germans can be thwarted with the barrage.

Besides, T3 as soviets is EXTREMELY good. One should still go for T4 tho as a good backup support for T34s to help lay down the pressure, but the T34 when they grow in numbers is no joke. Russian snowball and wins mid-late game hands down with ease.

all fine and good in 1v1 and somewhat in 2v2. But I was refering to 3v3' and 4v4's where 1 or 2 German players just skip straight from tier 1 to tier 4 and start rolling Piv's. Su85's is the only viable option there unless dominating a game (which you are not due to scout car having a blast in that time, nullifying clowns, infantry, mortars, etc...........

disclaimer: Tho I must say i usually play with randoms of questionable skill and usually when first Piv's hit the ground I get ganged up by 2 players without much chance of having decent support from teamates. That might be the reason I find that if I don't go for t1-t4 fast Su85 I stand no chance

It has always been the most reliable counter to T70s at vet2 (because PaKs can't hit them that well and shreks cost a decent amount and have mobility issues+occasionally get killed between the required one reload), which it will always have if it has survived until a T70 is out. Please don't overestimate T70 capability against vehicles, it really is a pure anti-infantry vehicle, unlike the scout car which kills everything that isn't a medium/heavy tank.

222 AC only wins if it has the veterancy advantage or because the T70 was busy shooting something else.

vet0 T70 vs vet0 AC= decisive T70 win
vet0 T70 vs vet2 AC= narrow T70 win
vet0 T70 vs vet3 AC= decisive AC win
vet2 T70 vs vet3 AC= never encountered that, probably close.

222 AC only wins if it has the veterancy advantage or because the T70 was busy shooting something else.

vet0 T70 vs vet0 AC= decisive T70 win
vet0 T70 vs vet2 AC= narrow T70 win
vet0 T70 vs vet3 AC= decisive AC win
vet2 T70 vs vet3 AC= never encountered that, probably close.

There are no unvetted ACs on the field by the time T-70 hits. And no-one just amoves their AC into a T-70. Shrecked Pgrens, Pfausts (who can btw one-shot T-70 if lucky) all exist and make the T-70 "rampage" a very short experience.

As I said, the T-70 is a gimmick unit that relies on exploiting an opening in your enemies defense. A good german won't have that, so T-70 is useless. The same is true for M3s.

gee wizz, I wonder if they're going to get a MG transition into Flamehalftrack with a possibility of ACs, then try to advance to T3 and spam P4s all day. That's like the story of my life.

This happens almost every time in 3v3 or 4v4 and when there are 3 or more upgunned scout cars and a couple FHT conscript at nades and guards have no chance. And the snipers/mortars and clown cars you are forced to use to uproot the mg's just get run off the map. By the time you get some map control and enough time to get a tank out the German production line is churning them out as fast as they can build them espec if they have one player building supply trucks. I'm by no means a great player but yesterday I played several 3v3 or 4v4 as soviets and lost them all I played one as germans in frustration we held the fuel points easily as above one guy stuck some opels out and I didn't even care about tanks getting killed they were on constant build. Also the blitzkrieg vet 1 ability rapes a single su85 even if you have to chase it down, espec if you have smokes to shake off any guards only way Su is op is if you charge it head on without speed or smoke.

And yes its around an 80/20 split every time I play no need to be an ass and get all defensive may different for you but I see it on streams too and there are lots of posts about it so I'm pretty sure I'm not making it up. Put it this way have you ever seen a 80/20 split with soviets as 80% more than once or twice if ever or heard ppl complaining about the soviet que taking 30mins to find a game because there are no German players? probably not I know I haven't. Also I'm not interested in only playing soviets and I agree it is cool to play as the elite Germans and there units are pretty badass but you should be able to play both sides and not be disadvantaged balance wise.

my thoughts on the last post by nik262

I really agree with what you said, in team games opels really mess with the balance and having to face that many MG's means your spending fuel and high manpower units to reclaim some map while a hard counter to your strat is right around the corner in the form of panz grens with upgun scout cars.

I understand that 1v1 is what most people play and the soviet faction is probably stronger there but 2v2 and upwards its germans all the way very unblanced when in any kind of team game.

i also think there should be a random faction button because the 80% german 20% soveit split is ridiculous and shows how OP one faction is.

To any 2v2 sov players out there me and my freind have been playing around with a duel penal w/o flame in scout car start so you satchel the mg rushing for a house near the fuel and then you can hold the fuel early game quite easily. After that its 50/50. But this strat really only works because what well drilled German team are expecting that start.

Pfausts (who can btw one-shot T-70 if lucky)

LOL, never. Come back after playing the game some more.

The mistakes:

1) Clown Cars being allowed to have infantry shoot out of the back
2) Conscripts not having powerful enough smalls arms fire to punish German player when flanking
3) Two man sniper teams, for fuck sake just make them a one man squad, this is not hard to understand
4) 6 man Support teams, being too hard to kill
5) Kv8 Flame is far too powerful at killing squads
6) SU 85 still fires too quickly and is too fast and too cheap
7) Being able to build T1 and then T4 straight away is joke and too easy
8) Soviets Mines are cheaper then German mines, why?

1. Not seeing this as hugely game-breaking, tbh.
2. Yeah, though that's more a general question of support teams vs small arms fire.
3. Currently in a better spot than the German sniper as far as utility and balance goes. Right now, a Soviet can win with snipers -> SU-85 but it's very dependent on having better unit preservation than the Ostheer.
4. Since the Maxim nerf, there are more ways to deal with most Soviet weapon teams than with MG-42s.
5. More accurately, I think KV-8 doesn't cost enough for how strong it is.
6. Ehhhh... sort of true. Or at least, the frontal armour, damage and speed and lowish cost all taken together seem a bit excessive. Would be better if a StuG worked as a modest soft counter to it. Kind of mooted right now in 1v1 because of some of the Ostheer early game edge. Once MG-42 flanking gets fixed then maybe the SU-85 will need another tweak.
7. In 1v1, as I said in point 3, this is absolutely dependent on keeping your stuff alive better than the Ostheer player does. Since the scout car changes made it so you can't rely on an upgun ruining the 222's anti-sniper capacity, it's a much more high-pressure/high-risk strat than T2->T3, where AT-guns and T-70s can often net you a comeback even if you slip up quite badly in the early game.
8. German minefield really needs something of a rework but the Teller mines are way more powerful and more reliable anti-vehicle than the Sov mines.

There are no unvetted ACs on the field by the time T-70 hits. And no-one just amoves their AC into a T-70. Shrecked Pgrens, Pfausts (who can btw one-shot T-70 if lucky) all exist and make the T-70 "rampage" a very short experience.

As I said, the T-70 is a gimmick unit that relies on exploiting an opening in your enemies defense. A good german won't have that, so T-70 is useless. The same is true for M3s.

T-70s are very good against infantry throughout the game, as well as extremely cheap (therefore get vet very quickly), fast and having a lot of extra utility (vet cap, self-repair, recon). I see a lot of very high-level Soviets use them successfully. I have never ever seen a faust one-shot a T-70. You probably hit a teller mine or something.

Abut I see it on streams too and there are lots of posts about it

Streams are never a good source for anything except for mild entertainment. Majority would complain about something completely unwarranted and fast conclussions. It's always like that, regardless of what it is. They jump to conclussions without considering a large chunk of variables.

Put it this way have you ever seen a 80/20 split with soviets as 80% more than once or twice if ever or heard ppl complaining about the soviet que taking 30mins to find a game because there are no German players?

No, but they vary from 50(70ish)/50(30ish) from time to time. It depends on when you're searching as well. I can search games as russians for quite for a long time as well. It's just really random.

Also I'm not interested in only playing soviets and I agree it is cool to play as the elite Germans and there units are pretty badass but you should be able to play both sides and not be disadvantaged balance wise.

I'll disagree on the balance wise, but it's just opinion based. Soviets really need to mix & match and talk with each other to get their steam rolling, whereas I'd say that Ostheer is alot more straight-forward in their general strategy & planning and predictability at the moment. Vetted Shocks, Guards, T70s/T34s or 85s (SU and T34) with ISU and Katyushkas available to them, they're the late-game faction that thrive on veterancy and rewards you argueably in my opinion, the best. The biggest obstacle for the soviets in my opinion is to tackle with the early to T2 transition german play, but once that's nailed down, it'll be easy.

However, by lifting that as abit of an obstacle course, it'll probably just make soviets life alot easier through-out all stages of the game. I think it's something of a "nice-design" approach to have some sort of aspect where a faction thrives, and the opposition need to tackle with it accordingly. Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT big of an obstacle that it becomes an unstoppable wall or anything, but I don't think it's quite like that once you get your nit & grit down with the gameplay.

A good idea to just mess with the MG42s is to be a complete nob and ignore it. However, depending on the map (such as City 17) you're going to need to however commit to certain locations. (However, the munition point on summer is a VERY crucial point to decap to mitigate resource income) so if it's a map of issue, I'd recommend hitting on the munition alot more and ignoring fuel, and invest in safe-fuel caches instead.

If you get your T70 fausted, your just bad. It takes 3-4 shots for the T70 to put the Grenadier into a Squad death situation. If you get to close due to true sight etc you can just run the guy over who attempts to faust..

Faust kills T70 in one-hit? I have no idea what game you are playing but it sure isn't CoH2.

Even if the T70 gets fausted, most of the time it will gladly force retreat or outright kill the squad and then proceed to self-repair (since on the T70 it isn't doctrinal). If that isn't good anti-infantry I don't know what is.

The biggest obstacle for the soviets in my opinion is to tackle with the early to T2 transition German play, but once that's nailed down, it'll be easy.

A good idea to just mess with the MG42s is to be a complete nob and ignore it. However, depending on the map (such as City 17) you're going to need to however commit to certain locations. (However, the munition point on summer is a VERY crucial point to decap to mitigate resource income) so if it's a map of issue, I'd recommend hitting on the munition alot more and ignoring fuel, and invest in safe-fuel caches instead.

Yeah I would say once it gets to late game it is more balanced I find it usually depends on how much vet squads/vehicles each team has built up. Eg a vetted panzer will own a Su and likewise a vetted t70 can take on a p5. On the whole the armor balance seems OK soviets have SU but Germans get much better range of tanks and their heavy tanks are better I would say.
Infantry I think Germans still have the edge especially vetted lmg grens just look at the dps tables.

Will try your tactic on the munis and just ignore the fuel caches and hmgs, could work in some cases I guess, as long as you can hold the victory points. As you say very map dependent some maps you have no choice.

Will try your tactic on the munis and just ignore the fuel caches and hmgs, could work in some cases I guess, as long as you can hold the victory points. As you say very map dependent some maps you have no choice.

Well, I'd say one of the good ideas is to just rush all the "key garrisons" on the right hand side, just litteray don't cap forward locations until slightly later on (the 3rd cons or engi) and just stall the mg42s as much as possible.

It's really abit difficult to explain, but it's doable - you just have to be really fast. Infact, I'm not sure it's doable anymore, due to the Oorah nerf, since the early Oorah was really crucial to reach critical locations =\