Soviet Faction

The last hand full of 2v2 games I have played against Soviets, all they make is this:

Two clown cars
Two Snipers early, then end up with four later
One or Two Guards
Two or Three SU85
One Mortar

Other player does the same except with Shocks and KV8 flamer included

This is all they need to win games. Considering there is no viable counter for Soviet Snipers in late game and SU85's still hard counter all German armour except Elephant, how the hell is this game supposed to be fun, remain fresh and not get boring as hell?

Literally the same thing happens, every single game. It's not the Soviet players fault, if they don't make those units they will lose, but for German to stand any chance against the units they make, they have to make every single unit possible to have even the slightest chance of winning, and if they do win it's because the Soviet player made a mistake.

The Soviet faction has to be probably the worst designed faction in an RTS I have seen since the Japanese Red Alert 3 or even Panzer Elite in CoH1.

The mistakes:

1) Clown Cars being allowed to have infantry shoot out of the back
2) Conscripts not having powerful enough smalls arms fire to punish German player when flanking
3) Two man sniper teams, for fuck sake just make them a one man squad, this is not hard to understand
4) 6 man Support teams, being too hard to kill
5) Kv8 Flame is far too powerful at killing squads
6) SU 85 still fires too quickly and is too fast and too cheap
7) Being able to build T1 and then T4 straight away is joke and too easy
8) Soviets Mines are cheaper then German mines, why?

This is all they need to win games.

This is also all you can do to win games.

Try playing against mg spam yourself, and then come back and complain.

Try playing against mg spam yourself, and then come back and complain.

If you read my post you would of seen that I stated: "It's not the Soviet players fault, if they don't make those units they will lose"

Try playing as Germans and don't make MG's and see how it works out for you.

This is also all you can do to win games.

You didn't read the rest of my post, refer to what I replied to Thrill with.

Not all soviet teams play like this, here's what we do.

Player1:

5 conscripts
4 SU76
1 shocktroops
1 ISU

Player 2:

5 conscripts
1 guards
1 120mm mortar
X t34/85

No SU85, no snipers and still players whine when they lose. I'm starting to think perhaps winning as Soviets is OP.

Not all soviet teams play like this, here's what we do.

Congratulations, you belong to the AT guys in Teamspeak stomping RTs. 2v2 balance is irrelevant.

Congratulations, you belong to the AT guys in Teamspeak stomping RTs. 2v2 balance is irrelevant.

Teamplay in team games makes balance irrelevant?

Congratulations, you belong to the AT guys in Teamspeak stomping RTs. 2v2 balance is irrelevant.

2v2 is probably more competitive than 1v1 considering how the rock paper scissors doctrines are dead, and teching/upgrading has a lot less risk/reward than it did in vcoh.

Try playing as Germans and don't make MG's and see how it works out for you.

Answer: It works quite well. Grenadiers are still stronger than conscripts for cost at vet0, and god help conscripts after the grenadiers start getting vet or lmg42s. Massed grenadiers have even less counters to them than massed MGs.

It does require a bit more effort as with MG42s you can just attack move straight to their base and be more or less guaranteed results.

8) Soviets Mines are cheaper then German mines, why?

Because they're weaker? Soviet AT mine is 200 damage and engine damaged (destroyed on critical), teller is 500 damage with engine destroyed (dunno if it gets an additional effect on critical). S-mines work rather differently than at mines so their cost is relatively irrelevant, the s-mines have a far higher casualty potential and are harder to get rid of, but take longer to setup, leave a visible mark on the battlefield and won't oneshot if player doesn't walk over multiple explosions (40 damage per explosion so need a minimum of two to kill full health infantry)

The last hand full of 2v2 games I have played against Soviets, all they make is this:

Two clown cars
Two Snipers early, then end up with four later
One or Two Guards
Two or Three SU85
One Mortar

Considering, under current balance situation, is there any other viable way to counter Jerry?
The meta game of any faction is the problem of the whole game balance instead of one of the faction

2v2 is probably more competitive than 1v1 considering how the rock paper scissors doctrines are dead, and teching/upgrading has a lot less risk/reward than it did in vcoh.

Ha! Still, competitive format is 1v1.

Teamplay in team games makes balance irrelevant?

That's not what I said.

Hmm i usually dont have problem dealing with soviets in 2v2,
Im ranked 818th , with W:42 L:3 (1 was real defeat, 2 were network problems) search madrrasha95 if u want....
But its not that hard to beat soviets if u have a good commrade like i do, his playstyle is very similar to mine and we fill each others gaps always happy and want to help
I would suggest you watch some replays and analyze or try looking for a decent partner but not a guy that is way much better than u that has to clean up ur mess , try to find in the middle

Grenadiers are still stronger than conscripts for cost at vet0

False.

if you play 2v2, check the first page of 2v2 leader board, all the first page German players were pretty much have 10+ win streak, while soviet board is like all read......

so, prove yourself.

current win rates for top 200 are:

Win%		1v1	2v2	3v3	4v4
Ger		71.2	72.3	75.6	75.9
Sov		67.4	69.2	68.0	60.5

Answer: It works quite well. Grenadiers are still stronger than conscripts for cost at vet0, and god help conscripts after the grenadiers start getting vet or lmg42s. Massed grenadiers have even less counters to them than massed MGs.

It does require a bit more effort as with MG42s you can just attack move straight to their base and be more or less guaranteed results.

sadly true. and swarming grens/pgrens even helps more in late game due to shrecks/fausts

as a Soviet if you want to slow down tanks with infantry you have to call in a doctrinal squad and use button (which lasts a few seconds and can be broken out with smoke or suppressing/stunning/killing guards), as German you can just use basic infantry with faust (which damages engine indefinitely)

If you read my post you would of seen that I stated: "It's not the Soviet players fault, if they don't make those units they will lose"

sorry, my bad.

Well from my own experience I have to contradict you on some points:
1)We don't have Armored Cars and FlameHalftracks that chew infantry
4)Support teams aren't hard to kill...an MG42 survives longer than a Maxim(today I flamed an MG42 with one molotov and it just chewed up half it's health with none of the crew dying,that's a flanking reward I guess,then the guy just stood there,in flames,massacring my conscripts)
5)Again,I could say FlameHalftrack is too powerfull at killing infantry,your argument isn't valid
6)SU-85 doesn't fire too quickly,all good german players retreat their tanks when half of their health is gone
7)Being able to build MG's and snipers from T1 is ridiculous and too easy
8)Soviet mines are weaker too

Ha! Still, competitive format is 1v1.

Just a few guys that were some of the best 2v2 players near the end of CoH1. The ones with * were either primarily or exclusively 2v2 players.

Show Spoiler

So how is 2v2 not a competitive format?