Pgrens seem like they have been flipped on their head

I'm simply saying that shocks and pgrens serve the same functions. I'm saying that I don't see how pgrens are more flexible. Shocks need to get close. Pgrens still need to be at least midrange. Even cons will beat pgrens at max range. However shocks can always afford to charge due to having cheap smoke and simply being a beefier, armored squad.

Pgrens don't have to kiss to the enemy to work. If shocks are facing fussies or ass grens they have 1 place they need to be- on top of them no ifs ands or buts pgrens can afford to stock in cover for some engagements. If they are fighting Tommy's they CAN close for an advantage if the cover is there and if they are fighting sappers they can sit and shoot on approach. That's their flexibility not to mention the ability to transition to emergency AT. Shocks are great at 1 thing pgrens are good at a couple. All I'm saying. Plus there is not a single doctrine with a tiger or elefant or command tank or Pak or arty or railway or OPel blitz trucks ect that does not have pgrens. The availability alone is a huge boon as they allow the flexibility to pick what you want without losing out

That's their flexibility not to mention the ability to transition to emergency AT. Shocks are great at 1 thing pgrens are good at a couple. All I'm saying.

If you upgrade them they loose almost all their AI capabilities. So It's like you get a new diffrent unit. As i meansioned before they should get cost decreased to 300mp - currently their AI isn't cost effective, especially vs mid-late game USF and UKF.

Btw can anyone knows why the smoke nade was at the end not implemented in a patch live version?

pgren is strong at close range but he is much stronger when he is in mid range

The unit which used to be slightly (and I mean slightly) overtuned in its machine gun combat is now completely useless and dies almost instantly if focus fired by 2 units of even the worst quality. Even losing a single Pgren results in a loss of 25% firepower, yet they are completely useless if not at close range. What is the solution? So far I find them to only be useful upon giving them panzershreks, which do work well, but anything less than vet 2 and they can't hit the broad side of a Jackson.

As of now it seems like the only anti infantry option Ost has is a gren squad with G43/LMG and of course an MG42, but because everyone has a mortar these days (which they were not supposed to) and that pretty much makes MGs useless as well.

I will say though I do find it hilarious that a pioneer squad can 1v1 Brit infantry. This sloppiness does not make up for the fact that Pgrens are currently hot trash, and a disgrace.

if you dont like 25% fire losses. how about giving him only 1 stg for 4units. there will be no dps drop until all he dies.

I think is quite obvious what needs to be done. Reduce pgren to 8 pop, shocks 9 pop. If pgrens are going to remain 9, they need some kind of aura with tanks, repair ability, smoke, or some other buff. Its quite silly how riflemen are able to go toe to toe with them after upgrading but only cost 7. And the ambo takes less pop now.

And I've explained 3 times. Pgrens have better range than shock but shocks have smoke to always swing hte engagement in their favor.

And I've explained 3 times. Pgrens have better range than shock but shocks have smoke to always swing hte engagement in their favor.

But what's stopping the enemy from moving back, if the Shocktroops use smoke. It's not like Shocks are gonna wipe anything on retreat as well.

Pgrens don't have to kiss to the enemy to work. If shocks are facing fussies or ass grens they have 1 place they need to be- on top of them no ifs ands or buts pgrens can afford to stock in cover for some engagements. If they are fighting Tommy's they CAN close for an advantage if the cover is there and if they are fighting sappers they can sit and shoot on approach. That's their flexibility not to mention the ability to transition to emergency AT. Shocks are great at 1 thing pgrens are good at a couple. All I'm saying. Plus there is not a single doctrine with a tiger or elefant or command tank or Pak or arty or railway or OPel blitz trucks ect that does not have pgrens. The availability alone is a huge boon as they allow the flexibility to pick what you want without losing out

the panzer grenadier isn't that amazing at long to mid range. bar rifle will beat them.


And really, rifle is the problem? before the terminator veterancy they are solild, but nothing amazing.

But what's stopping the enemy from moving back, if the Shocktroops use smoke. It's not like Shocks are gonna wipe anything on retreat as well.

forcing the Mg42 to move is a pretty big deal.

How is this thread still going? I thought it was concluded 5 pages of posts ago that pgrens are good on the defense and have good upgrades?

But what's stopping the enemy from moving back, if the Shocktroops use smoke. It's not like Shocks are gonna wipe anything on retreat as well.

If they move back, keep on moving forward with the shocks. Back-pedaling units can't shoot back while the shocks can. And some units like mgs don't have the luxury of moving back for obvious reasons. Sooner or later, you'll be able to force a hard retreat or even if the unit was baiting you into an mg, your 390mp squad requires 2 units which cost more than 390mp to defend against it.

Panzergranediers were soldier who moved with the panzer divisions. The grenadiers of the heer usually moved ahead and was the frontline troop. Pg’s supported the tanks and acted as motorized infantry. Pg’s also called shutzen we’re either once frontline Troops or we’re straight up transferred to the panzer grenadier corps bringing there special skill sets with them. In the case of grens and panzer grens It’s like comparing the u.s. infantry divisions to supporting u.s. armored divisions. Different training but more or less whoose troops originally coming from and transferred between divisions.

The armored divisions tended to have more close quartered weapons compared to infantry divisions to support the tanks, armored cars, and pulled artillery that supports the heer frontline infantry divisions.

My opinion is the panzer grenaders unlike traditional shock Troops we’re given more training than just close quarters. Panzer grens coming from different backgrounds were flexible and more seasoned than the usual trooper. They still usually had more training but I still wouldn’t call them elites. They weren’t brandenburgers or sas commandos.

So in short they had better training, wide weapon expertise and knew how to not get shot in the face. They just weren’t super elites.

Shutzen also were originally created out of the WW1 motorized motorcycle battalions too

Also don’t shoot me or anything I may have misinterpreted or might have gotten some stuff mixed up. Also my autistic mind may have decided to get something wrong. Just correct me when need be

Edit:

Found this awesome video

https://youtu.be/e2HD2ZTs_Kg

Give them basic repair ability(like doctrinal cons) and for vet one the ability to reinforce next to all friendly vehicles like they were halftracks (copy the script for pathfinder-beacons/paras minus the airdrop animation). Fits their historic role (mechanized inf) + unique feature and balance between utility and (stat) buff (indirect buff to durability).

Give them basic repair ability(like doctrinal cons) and for vet one the ability to reinforce next to all friendly vehicles like they were halftracks (copy the script for pathfinder-beacons/paras minus the airdrop animation). Fits their historic role (mechanized inf) + unique feature and balance between utility and (stat) buff (indirect buff to durability).

I like the reinforce idea given the high reinforce cost limits it’s impact. Repair sounds nice but they’re too valuable to use for that I think. However given that OST is currently not considered underpowered I feel it unlikely that patchers will be seeking ways to buff them even a bit unless they choose to nerf something else like g43’s for example. I imagine next they will be looking at brits to buff and maybe a soviet thing or two to tune